M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Jamiet99uk]

Exactly. Why are you waiting until seconds to go to make your vote count instead of participating in the EOD if you're here and so attentive?

I would have preferred Jamie obviously and wanted to give that every opportunity to fly. If a very late wagon on someone who i scum read had have materialized, I wouldn't jumped there. As it was hammering down HR's coffin to ensure no ties seemed like best option.

On day 2, Jamie's wagon was down to 1 vote with 47 minutes to go. That 1 vote was you. Without momentum for it to grow, one vote does not constitute a wagon, and you did not attempt to provide it any momentum to grow. Why did you not attempt to convince people to join you again on Jamie as it faded down the stretch?

Why aren't you attempting to make a late wagon on someone you scumread materialize? Why wait for someone else to do it? Who do you scumread, and on who would those applicable wagons have been?

You did the exact same thing on day 1, except your vote was for me, and as far as I know none of your votes on day 1 until your vote on Flum were serious. Who would you have moved to on day 1 had that wagon materialized?

Maniac has not answered this.

Seemingly Maniac wants us to believe that he sat there in impotent silence watching my wagon ebb away and, despite seeing this happen, he said and did absolutely nothing at all until jumping to HR at the very last second.

[Hamilton Brian]

Why were you considering Maniac with 1 minute to go when the vote had already been decided and you were on the leading wagon?

Considering it doesn't mean acting on it; there is also the issue of my writing, actually posting, and the time delay between all of that and the bot. I was surprised when I saw the vote grow quickly from 4 to 7 (I think that's what it was).

[Hamilton Brian]

You’re confident that you’ll still be around D3?

Interesting

Not really; in a situation where there are now 11 town left, I am the 11th most-competent townsperson. Harsh personal critique of my game, but it is what it is.

Off to do the Sunday shopping. Will catch up more when I get home.

[Jamiet99uk]

I’m pretty pissed off. I’m wondering what I personally can do differently over N2 and D3. It was the lamest bullshittiest reason to vote HR, but it’s the mist competent idea of a read I had. On that note, I’m out throwing candy to kids.

You’re confident that you’ll still be around D3?

Interesting

Another silly comment from Maniac, trying to create the veneer of investigation.

What does he want Hamilton to do, talk about what he will do differently when he is dead?

Please, Hamilton, tell us how you'll change your play if you die. (Sarcasm).

[Jamiet99uk]

I mean, of course if its N2 and you're going to speculate about what you'll do on D3, you have to do so on the basis that you'll hopefully be alive on D3.

Otherwise the only answer you can give tonight, to any questions about what you'd do tomorrow, would be "oh I dunno I might be dead lulz".

Is that what Maniac would like? Because I don't see how that helps town.

[kgray]

I very much wanted kgray to take off, and made pretty clear with my posting that I would vote for Maniac over HR if it came down to it, so I don't find this characterization fair. I agree that kgray's vote for darg when it didn't make the wagon bigger than Maniac's was a bit odd, but I think it would be more damning if HR had flipped scum.

No you didn't. You only mentioned him 4 times in the last hour of D2 and you never once even hinted that you'd move to Maniac. If anything, you seemed to be drawing people away from him.

You said this to Bunny:

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

Then you question my scumread of Maniac, which could also be you trying to keep people off his wagon.

You say he's more likely to bus than you or HR, which I don't think is very relevant but I'm including it for completeness.

And then finally you ask me why I didn't stay on Maniac?? When neither you nor HR showed any signs of moving there?

If you wanted to save HR you should have voted Maniac. I only switched to darg because I thought that might get more traction (and I missed a post where Jamie said he'd move to Maniac to break a tie).

So saying you made it clear you'd move to Maniac over HR is a downright lie.

[Jamiet99uk]

^ ^ ^

I'm enjoying this from Kgray.

I want to see Ghug provide evidence of the posts where he said he'd vote for Maniac.

From what I recall of D2, Ghug mostly criticised anyone considering voting for Maniac.

[ghug]

I very much wanted kgray to take off, and made pretty clear with my posting that I would vote for Maniac over HR if it came down to it, so I don't find this characterization fair. I agree that kgray's vote for darg when it didn't make the wagon bigger than Maniac's was a bit odd, but I think it would be more damning if HR had flipped scum.

No you didn't. You only mentioned him 4 times in the last hour of D2 and you never once even hinted that you'd move to Maniac. If anything, you seemed to be drawing people away from him.

You said this to Bunny:

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

Then you question my scumread of Maniac, which could also be you trying to keep people off his wagon.

You say he's more likely to bus than you or HR, which I don't think is very relevant but I'm including it for completeness.

And then finally you ask me why I didn't stay on Maniac?? When neither you nor HR showed any signs of moving there?

If you wanted to save HR you should have voted Maniac. I only switched to darg because I thought that might get more traction (and I missed a post where Jamie said he'd move to Maniac to break a tie).

So saying you made it clear you'd move to Maniac over HR is a downright lie.

It feels like you're reading in iso. Maybe "clear" is a little strong, but I was adamant I didn't want HR killed and didn't say the same thing about Maniac, which means voting HR over Maniac if it had come down to the two of them would have been indefensible.

[kgray]

Don't particularly like bo and Chaqa immediately coming out with such sure conclusions right after the flip.

Agree.

If it makes you both feel better, I began writing that post before the flip was announced, because I was that certain, and I was paying rather close attention to how that wagon was transpiring in the last couple of minutes. Pretty scummy to be that confident in your reads and plan ahead like that, huh?

lmao yeah bo that's pretty scummy

[kgray]

So, a bunch of brilliant town with probably some scum on it decided to kill HR because he was playing weirdly. Great.

I am pretty sure we can find some scum on HR wagon, maybe more then one. I will not vote tomorrow outside people on this wagon. And I am pretty sure I will be alive tomorrow before someone ask.

I guess damo will get another pass?

[kgray]

@Dargorygel - get well soonest. This is only a game, play if you enjoy it but we’ll all understand if you need time away.

Hi Ghug - my overall outlook hasn’t changed, I’m here for fun times. I think I used to trawl though every post and analyse every dot and comma before hoping to be the town hero that would catch those pesky scum. Now I’m more relaxed, skim read more. The whole game seems to have changed somewhat. People are less aggressive than I remember. No one does read lists. Think I preferred the old forum where people would select small snippets rather than quoting blocks of text. Things were better in my day

Do you think your game has advanced over the last 40 odd games?

I'm back from a lengthy hiatus too. I'm trying to find a way to get scumread without being an asshole to everyone (ideally just to bo, who deserves it, but I'm not perfect), and I'm trying to find the right balance of letting others lead kills early so that I can watch while still protecting people I don't think should be killed and giving in to the urge to lead when it's actually appropriate.

I got my scum mojo back after failing hopelessly in one game, so I'm hoping for the same with my town game, but no luck so far.

This post gives me the creeps

[kgray]

Hey people.

Sorry about my recent inactivity, I've just finished up exam block and I'm dead tired.

Things should be better now, so here's to the future!

Have you read the game? Can you give some reads please?

[ghug]

@Dargorygel - get well soonest. This is only a game, play if you enjoy it but we’ll all understand if you need time away.

Hi Ghug - my overall outlook hasn’t changed, I’m here for fun times. I think I used to trawl though every post and analyse every dot and comma before hoping to be the town hero that would catch those pesky scum. Now I’m more relaxed, skim read more. The whole game seems to have changed somewhat. People are less aggressive than I remember. No one does read lists. Think I preferred the old forum where people would select small snippets rather than quoting blocks of text. Things were better in my day

Do you think your game has advanced over the last 40 odd games?

I'm back from a lengthy hiatus too. I'm trying to find a way to get scumread without being an asshole to everyone (ideally just to bo, who deserves it, but I'm not perfect), and I'm trying to find the right balance of letting others lead kills early so that I can watch while still protecting people I don't think should be killed and giving in to the urge to lead when it's actually appropriate.

I got my scum mojo back after failing hopelessly in one game, so I'm hoping for the same with my town game, but no luck so far.

This post gives me the creeps

Does it help to know I was very stoned?

[Jamiet99uk]

I've done some of Ghug's homework for him and picked out ALL of the D2 posts by Ghug in which he mentions Maniac at all. All of them.

Enjoying banana

Bananas are the devils fruit. This could be a scum slip

Like this post

This post does not indicate a desire to vote for Maniac.

K, taking some notes for myself mostly

Current townreads most to least:
ghuggles
Macca
teacon
Bunny
Chaqa
Seth
Brian
Jamie (pending Flum; Flum found a scumtell in my play once, so I'm generally inclined to trust these things if he's confident)

That leaves (scummier at the bottom):
Rivera
HR
Maniac
Vecna
-----------
Kgray
Damo
Darg
Bo

I'd vote pretty happily below the line. I really don't like the teacon or Chaqa wagons.

Ghug says he'd happily vote *below* the line. Maniac is *above* the line, at about the same level as HR.

Maniac would know
He is a politician
Hello there Maniac

^ This post is a reference to people taking drugs. It does not indicate a willingness to vote for Maniac.

Hey ghug.

I've not re-read you. I tried earlier, but the the haiku actually got in the way of me making sense of what you were saying. Let's chat.

1. Why is bo scum?
2. if bo wasn't an option today, who else would you vote for?
3. is this normal behavior for damo or Maniac or Bunny?

1. As a person or in this game?
2. darg, damo, or kgray. Jamie if Flum tells me he's confident on the slip.
3. My recent memory of damo as scum is that he was less invested, which he is here, but for a reason he gave pregame. As town, he says a lot of shit that makes no sense, and usually doesn't explain any of it, but I feel like I can see that his brain is actually trying to figure things out. He's making too much sense this game.

Maniac has no normal.

I've seen Bunny once as town where we daykilled him D1, once as 3P, and nonce as real scum. I've heard he's very good at scum, but I don't know what that looks like. His approach this game feels townie to me.

^ This post declares that Maniac has no "normal" behaviour but certainly does not indicate a willingness to vote for Maniac.

What's scummy about the HR wagon?

Darg’s actions. (Combined with my read of him). Vecna is vouching for Seth, but otherwise I worry with him too.

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

^ In this post, Ghug asks BunnyGo to consider voting for Kgray or myself *as opposed to* voting fopr Maniac. Far from indicating a willingness to vote for Maniac himself, Ghug seems to be advocating against a Maniac vote.

Like who?

Chaqa and Maniac.

Having just played with Maniac, what makes him scummier than last time (when he was town)?

^ In this post, Ghug defends Maniac.

hot take:

@HR
@ghug
@maniac

which one of you, as scum, is most likely to bus?

That's not a hot take, it's a question.

Probably Maniac.

^ Here, Ghug says that of the three people listed by Teacon, Maniac is the most likely to bus as scum. This does not however indicate a willingness to vote for Maniac. At this time Ghug was openly advocating for the Dargorygel wagon.

Not the vote necessarily, but the reasoning for it.

Kgray can do better.

I've already stated that I don't scumread HR

Why didn't you just stay on Maniac though?

^ Kgray has already addressed this post, which is Ghug's final D2 mention of Maniac.

At NO POINT did Ghug say he was willing to vote for Maniac. On more than one occasion, Ghug indicated opposition to a Maniac wagon.

You're a bad liar, Ghug.

[kgray]

I very much wanted kgray to take off, and made pretty clear with my posting that I would vote for Maniac over HR if it came down to it, so I don't find this characterization fair. I agree that kgray's vote for darg when it didn't make the wagon bigger than Maniac's was a bit odd, but I think it would be more damning if HR had flipped scum.

No you didn't. You only mentioned him 4 times in the last hour of D2 and you never once even hinted that you'd move to Maniac. If anything, you seemed to be drawing people away from him.

You said this to Bunny:

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

Then you question my scumread of Maniac, which could also be you trying to keep people off his wagon.

You say he's more likely to bus than you or HR, which I don't think is very relevant but I'm including it for completeness.

And then finally you ask me why I didn't stay on Maniac?? When neither you nor HR showed any signs of moving there?

If you wanted to save HR you should have voted Maniac. I only switched to darg because I thought that might get more traction (and I missed a post where Jamie said he'd move to Maniac to break a tie).

So saying you made it clear you'd move to Maniac over HR is a downright lie.

It feels like you're reading in iso. Maybe "clear" is a little strong, but I was adamant I didn't want HR killed and didn't say the same thing about Maniac, which means voting HR over Maniac if it had come down to the two of them would have been indefensible.

Yeah I read your iso because I didn't remember you supporting the Maniac wagon at all, and turns out I was right. It *was* coming down to HR or Maniac, and you could have tipped the scales a lot sooner and more efficiently if you'd joined Maniac's wagon when I was still there. Instead you hopped on the chance to vote darg with HR when he made it an option.

[kgray]

I'm back from a lengthy hiatus too. I'm trying to find a way to get scumread without being an asshole to everyone (ideally just to bo, who deserves it, but I'm not perfect), and I'm trying to find the right balance of letting others lead kills early so that I can watch while still protecting people I don't think should be killed and giving in to the urge to lead when it's actually appropriate.

I got my scum mojo back after failing hopelessly in one game, so I'm hoping for the same with my town game, but no luck so far.

This post gives me the creeps

Does it help to know I was very stoned?

No.

[ghug]

Did you read my response to kgray doing the same thing, Jamie?

I'm not saying I wanted Maniac dead. I'm saying I established opinions, specifically the one on HR, that would have made voting HR over him very suspicious.

[kgray]

Did you read my response to kgray doing the same thing, Jamie?

I'm not saying I wanted Maniac dead. I'm saying I established opinions, specifically the one on HR, that would have made voting HR over him very suspicious.

Wait what? You didn't want to vote for HR because that would make you look suspicious?

[ghug]

This post gives me the creeps

Does it help to know I was very stoned?

No.

We can rule out tone, then.

Is it because I pontificated on my meta when I was scum last game?

[kgray]

I get that you didn't want to vote HR. What I don't understand is why you didn't vote Maniac when he was the clear counter wagon.