M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Jamiet99uk]

Ok I'm back. I have read two short articles, one of which was useful, and I'll have to do a bit more PhD work later, but for now, I'm here and I'll be here for EoD.

I see Worcej has remembered to count Fluminator's vote and I also notice that Fluminator has not showed up for quite a while so his vote is still on Kgray although Ghug is now on me.

I notice that Dargorygel has been posting and is now voting HR... Has Darg explained why he jumped off Teacon onto me while still saying Teacon was his top scumread?

Let me see what else I need to catch up on quickly.

[rdrivera2005]

It's a meta thing, not a role thing. the logic goes like this:
rdriv has demonstrate that he is a good player.
if he's town, he tends to get NK'd because scum fears him.
if he doesn't get NK'd, there's a nagging suspicion that this is because scum to not NK their own.

It's a tough place to be, because it means he's the target of fearkills from town or from scum. You don't have to agree with the assessment of rdriv, or the logic, to agree that some people do think this way.

I don't think this is what Maniac meant. I will never be NKed with so many PRs around and at some point it will probably makes sense to DK me instead of a more valuable PR if we both are in the block. He even said that it's valid unless I obvtowned so hard that this isn't needed.
And I don't fully agree with this reasoning, policy lynches could be a great way for scum to hide and get a misskill.

fair enough rdriv.

I've love to see more from you right now. let's see some more from you.

If you were gladiator and had to activate right now, who would you pick?

First I won't activate it now, but if I had I would probably pick you.

[Hamilton Brian]

If anything, Bunny presents a pretty luxurious case on Darg. Not sure how air-tight it all is.

Luxurious? I don’t know what that means. But it sounds nice.

I was going to call it voluptuous but then decided it would have been inappropriate.

[Jamiet99uk]

Very sketchy of Rdrivera trying to re-write history here and claiming he never said he agreed with HR's concerns on Kgray, when you can see that's exactly what he said.

I have concerns about Kgray not obvtowning. I never said he gave reasons and called it a naked vote.

You said you agreed with his concerns.

How did you know what his concerns were? He had not expressed any concerns!!

[dargorygel]

Luxorious...

Bunny, your case on me is predicated on the idea that I was trying to break the game. Patently untrue. Also, if the idea that rushing to end the day early HAD worked, it would have harmed scum, yes? Why would I do that if I were scum?

[ghug]

Darg’s actions. (Combined with my read of him). Vecna is vouching for Seth, but otherwise I worry with him too.

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

I’d consider kgray. But not Jamie. What’s the case on kgray? Would you consider joining me on darg?

She had very open concoctions and pushed them strongly in our last game, when she was town. I'm seeing none of that here.

I would be open to killing darg as well.

[ghug]

##VOTE darg

[rdrivera2005]

No, I just don't think it should be the main reason to vote for him.

So, give me a good reason to vote Maniac. I don't like HR wagon, the people on it are scummy one way or another.

My scumread on Maniac is based on the fact that I don't like his explanations for a lot of his reads/votes and he's been consistently avoiding answering questions directed at him. The "we have to policy kill Rivera" stance is not something I understand or agree with, and the thing about voting for Jamie because of a "scumslip" was so, so terrible. He didn't bother going back to rethink things after it was pointed out that he misinterpreted what was happening, which is the worst part imo.

Damo got a pass until D3, so ##vote Maniac

I probably won't be around at EOD, I have a tennis game at the same time and I will be leaving to club 15 minutes to EOD, might be able to check before game start butv can't count on it.

[Jamiet99uk]

What's jamie's tell? let's consider that.

I wish I knew the answer to this, because it is clearly distracting Flum and Ghug and making them wrongly scumread me, but Flum never explained what he meant, and now he can't talk.

[ghug]

Kgray also cast a pretty important vote on Flum over Jamie without great reasoning, which I think is scummy whether it was protecting a scum Jamie or trying to kill a better town player over a worse one. I had a similar preference for Vecna in a TvT last game.

[Hamilton Brian]

Is there consensus that the hammering, had it worked, would have harmed mafia? If so, that fact alone makes me consider Jamie and Darg more town than not. That should clear that aspect of voting for either of them if that's the substantiate case.

[kgray]

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

I’d consider kgray. But not Jamie. What’s the case on kgray? Would you consider joining me on darg?

She had very open concoctions and pushed them strongly in our last game, when she was town. I'm seeing none of that here.

I would be open to killing darg as well.

I have never been as sure that I'd caught scum as I was with summit last game, and I probably never will be again during the early phases of a game. If you're looking for that level of conviction then you're going to be disappointed.

[bo_sox48]

Yall scumreading HR for being himself are kinda weird.

This is like the typical scumpost whiteknighting town for terribad reasons

as in, scum knowing HR is town, before anyone goes "lol scumslip"

I am quite confident that HR is town, yes. Thank you for stating the obvious.

[ghug]

I’d consider kgray. But not Jamie. What’s the case on kgray? Would you consider joining me on darg?

She had very open concoctions and pushed them strongly in our last game, when she was town. I'm seeing none of that here.

I would be open to killing darg as well.

I have never been as sure that I'd caught scum as I was with summit last game, and I probably never will be again during the early phases of a game. If you're looking for that level of conviction then you're going to be disappointed.

You showed similar conviction when we wrongly killed Vecna. You were pretty forceful when you started to suspect me and Durga and Nanook.

[Hellenic Riot]

Would you vote kgray or Jamie to counteract the HR wagon if it came down to it, or are you only interested in Maniac?

I’d consider kgray. But not Jamie. What’s the case on kgray? Would you consider joining me on darg?

She had very open concoctions and pushed them strongly in our last game, when she was town. I'm seeing none of that here.

I would be open to killing darg as well.

I think it's extremely unlikely that Darg & kgray are scum together, though, given Darg admitted his vote on me is 'sheeping kgray' (which is even odder when kgray isn't scumreading or voting me).

[BunnyGo]

Sorry folks. Am off to kiddos Halloween at home now. Good luck.

[ghug]

This is like the typical scumpost whiteknighting town for terribad reasons

as in, scum knowing HR is town, before anyone goes "lol scumslip"

I am quite confident that HR is town, yes. Thank you for stating the obvious.

What makes you so confident?

[kgray]

Kgray also cast a pretty important vote on Flum over Jamie without great reasoning, which I think is scummy whether it was protecting a scum Jamie or trying to kill a better town player over a worse one. I had a similar preference for Vecna in a TvT last game.

Nobody seemed interested in teacon and I had a stronger townread of Jamie than Flum. I have already said this. If you scumread everyone who breaks a tie then there will be nobody left for your townpool.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Dargorygel:

I asked you to explain this, and you have not done so:

It is difficult to argue against ghug's gut feeling, and vecna's 'seems like.' To me, I am obvtown. Unlikely to be on today. I am happiest, still, with a teacon kill. But Jamie's flip reveals more. I also note, regarding Jamie, that he has gone silentish.

At the time you moved your vote to me, you said you were "happiest" with a Teacon kill. Teacon was the leading wagon at the moment you moved your vote off of him. Why would you remove your vote from the wagon you were "happiest" with, when it was in the lead?

I want you to properly explain this.

[bo_sox48]

Go read my posts. I’ve tried to explain my reasoning. This doesn’t come out of nowhere. If no one is gonna read when I explain my reasoning and thoughts why do I even bother?

What doesn't come out of nowhere? You and ghug breaking up? You two were so good together.

I'm not sure why people get so upset when people don't read what they say. It's not as if anyone is going to act on your rationale as opposed to their own anyway. I've read like 6 pages of this game total and you still townread me, and you're right do so, so evidently it's unnecessary.

You called my distancing from ghug convenient. However, it has been gradually happening as our reads have diverged, especially on you and Jamie. So I'm not suddenly "breaking up with" ghug as you seem to be implying.

Your reads being the same was never a reasonable motive for walking hand in hand with him and lauding him with praise for the first 72 hours of this game.