I hadn’t picked up on the full significance of the pg85 exchanges between you and Jamie. But having re-read, it does add some weight to the case against Jamie yes. He will no doubt argue confusion.seth24c wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:47 amThanks for the translation. Does Jamie making a mistake a page or two after the miskill quote (where he assumes the fruit vendor is town even though it could be either alignment) factor into your decision?Maniac wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:02 amI should elaborate. My case against Jamie is that he asked teacon7 who he thought was pushing a MIS-KILL on him. How would Jamie know? If Jamie flips scum, teacon is clear.
Flum has said he has picked up a Jamie scum tell and when questioned by Ghug as to how confident he is in that tell he has responded with 4 out of 5.
All aboard choo-choo
M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN
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Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Sorry for another wall of dense catch-up text. Not sure what's going on with him at the moment but we need a little more substance than what we've got so far from HR. ##vote HR
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
To me it could easily go either way. Town or scum player gets flustered or in a hurry and makes a couple mistakes. His other play has been tough to sort for me but leans town.Maniac wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:03 amI hadn’t picked up on the full significance of the pg85 exchanges between you and Jamie. But having re-read, it does add some weight to the case against Jamie yes. He will no doubt argue confusion.seth24c wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:47 amThanks for the translation. Does Jamie making a mistake a page or two after the miskill quote (where he assumes the fruit vendor is town even though it could be either alignment) factor into your decision?Maniac wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:02 am
I should elaborate. My case against Jamie is that he asked teacon7 who he thought was pushing a MIS-KILL on him. How would Jamie know? If Jamie flips scum, teacon is clear.
Flum has said he has picked up a Jamie scum tell and when questioned by Ghug as to how confident he is in that tell he has responded with 4 out of 5.
All aboard choo-choo
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Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
@seth @ Ghug
Case against Jamie
Clear flum has picked up a strong tell
I think he knows Teacon will be a mis-kill
If he flips scum the Fruit Vender is likely town
If he flips scum teacon is clear
We can re-look at D1 voting
The thread is much more readable -
I can’t see any better candidates
Case against Jamie
Clear flum has picked up a strong tell
I think he knows Teacon will be a mis-kill
If he flips scum the Fruit Vender is likely town
If he flips scum teacon is clear
We can re-look at D1 voting
The thread is much more readable -
I can’t see any better candidates
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Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
I understand your feeling. What the 4 Jamiet votes mean, I don't remember your codes.
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Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Ghug asked Flum how strong he thought his scum tell on Jamie was. Voting once for Jamie being weak, voting 5 times for Jamie being super strong.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:45 amI understand your feeling. What the 4 Jamiet votes mean, I don't remember your codes.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
I don't have a 4/5 strength scumread on anyone so theoretically I should sheep Flum but I kinda townread Jamie so I'm in a bit of a quandary.Maniac wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:00 amGhug asked Flum how strong he thought his scum tell on Jamie was. Voting once for Jamie being weak, voting 5 times for Jamie being super strong.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:45 amI understand your feeling. What the 4 Jamiet votes mean, I don't remember your codes.
I'll leave my vote on teacup at the moment but if anyone can provide a strong nonFlum reason to vote Jamie do please tell.
The HR wagon is also of interest but I'll wait and see his response.
I don't really get the kgray votes. She seems pretty towny to me.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
just randomly browsing to see how people reacted to my drunk shit from last night (boring really, boo) and then my eye caught this post.bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:57 amOn one hand, I'd expect town ghug to play better, less jumping at shadows and more focused on effective gameplay even if the answers aren't immediately apparent. On the other hand, I'd expect scum ghug to play better, controlling the narrative from a distance and allowing the town to manipulate one another with some subtle nudging in the direction he wants them to go. Here I see neither.
Ghug, are you town playing badly? I never thought I'd see the day.
this is such a post designed by scum to try and appear solving, holy dogwhistle on a parrot
##vote bo_sox
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
if bo is scum, this post partner-clears bunny also. not a fabricated interaction when people go "wait didnt you ask me x?"
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
bunny, why was this analysis dense to you?BunnyGo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:58 amMan...I gotta play like this more. It makes the hunting feel easier. Seth shows up, posts WALLS of dense texts saying "waaaa? me?!?!?" and then promptly shifts to meaningless dense analysis. ##vote seth based on reading to here. Will see what happens next (I saw teacon is leading with kgray 2nd based on the ghug +Flum vote. Looking forward to seeing why)seth24c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:00 pmAs indicated by me calling them vibes it’s nothing concrete yet. But kgray going back and forth with ghug and jamie made me feel like she was trying to make them suspicious of each other. There were also moments where I thought she was acting pretty town but especially since rdr gave her a pass for her vote for flum and then scumread me and teacon for it I’ve been a little more suspect of both of them.Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:56 pm
Is that based on the post they made that you referenced or other things (and if so, like what)?
And my comment about HR was a bit colloquial, as in, "I'm going to be pretty suspicious of HR if they don't show up soon and start presenting some info." It was off-handed, but they are on my list.
I havent read most of the game, im 70 pages behind, and even from that 1 post you quoted from seth he's instantly a townread for me.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Another glaring example of a post that should make seth lock-town to people. This is just a top-notch example of him overextending into believing his analysis was fine and shittalking bunny for criticizing it.seth24c wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:40 amWell I mean it may feel easier but the results are what counts right? I'm sorry to hear that my walls of dense text and meaningless dense analysis don't do it for you. Do you mind to send me your contact information so I can put you as a reference?BunnyGo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:58 amMan...I gotta play like this more. It makes the hunting feel easier. Seth shows up, posts WALLS of dense texts saying "waaaa? me?!?!?" and then promptly shifts to meaningless dense analysis. ##vote seth based on reading to here. Will see what happens next (I saw teacon is leading with kgray 2nd based on the ghug +Flum vote. Looking forward to seeing why)seth24c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:00 pm
As indicated by me calling them vibes it’s nothing concrete yet. But kgray going back and forth with ghug and jamie made me feel like she was trying to make them suspicious of each other. There were also moments where I thought she was acting pretty town but especially since rdr gave her a pass for her vote for flum and then scumread me and teacon for it I’ve been a little more suspect of both of them.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Finally got some minor motivation to catch up.
Will try to post it in giant walls to not mess up the current thread topics too much and add a ton of pages.
Its a good thing scum were dummies. I probably wouldve gone into debt and taken both.
-------------------------------------------
thoughts after p35 (and some current page reading):
town:
Rdrivera, jamiet, Seth,
probably town:
Kgray, Damo?, Bunny
Looking not so great:
Bo, HB, Macca (depending on whether he continues to actually participate or whether he keeps leaning on that slip/forced thing)
Will try to post it in giant walls to not mess up the current thread topics too much and add a ton of pages.
HB is feeling really surface so far. No spicy takes. Just being present and skating by. If this continues he is a prime scum possibility.Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:52 amThat's based on their use of 3 other players when questioning Jamie, right? Is this Bozo slipping?
My sense of Bozo as a player is they dive so deeply into mechanics as town. I somewhat feel that's what they're starting to do here. I also find them too careful and parsed with what they say. Probably the worst question to send their way is a closed question.
Bozo, why did you settle on the number 3 when suggesting scum partners?
Interesting to note that Macca realized the importance of the restless spirit. It very well mightve been an option that was discussed a lot in the scum chat, because if you think about it....the restless spirit is almost as valuable as an extra teammember if a scum member is to die early. Town will have to dance around it all game, resulting in worse wagons, worse EoD information. A scumvote that cannot be removed with extra upside. And much cheaper than the extra member.Macca573 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:54 amI would probably go:bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:04 amApparently I was not clear, I would like everyone to please answer this question:
What would you have chosen if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?
Restless spirit
Odd-Night Tracker
Fruit vendor (the give the maf money? I think I read that somewhere?)
Double voter (provided the vote works more than once)
Frankly, the biggest reason is a don't like roles with limited uses, I'd be scared to use them until it's too late.
Important note, I did not do the math for this, I don't know how much debt it is, it may be bad.
Its a good thing scum were dummies. I probably wouldve gone into debt and taken both.
plenty of times when she was scum? Odd post since you should be the main person to know that very well.BunnyGo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:03 amWho are you, and when has kgray ever written a post exactly what I was thinking?
good point made here though. First hint of a townpost from Kgraykgray wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:05 amJamie's sarcasm aside, I do think you're being overly defensive of bozo and I don't like it. Reminds me of how you claimed there's no way I could have scumslipped last game.
and again one of her minor towntells here
townpost from bunny
for being proud of being so aware of whats going on, obviously
-------------------------------------------
thoughts after p35 (and some current page reading):
town:
Rdrivera, jamiet, Seth,
probably town:
Kgray, Damo?, Bunny
Looking not so great:
Bo, HB, Macca (depending on whether he continues to actually participate or whether he keeps leaning on that slip/forced thing)
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Fully possible, but theres a bunch of other people id feel are much more likely to be the vote for a recruit by any 3 player scumteam. Regardless, just observe his play and itll all become clear.
such posts I feel are also usually a thing that comes from town. Maniac has been having a pretty nice vibe this game. not sure its town indicative, but at least im feeling ill be getting more on the same page with him this game.Maniac wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:36 amI think Ghug is becoming my top scum read. He’s doing something/not doing something that I’m suspicious of. I want to see if he continues to do/not do it for a bit longer before I vote for him.
Seth just continues to call out all the right things. slot is locktown. will never ever vote him this game. Its kinda nice he has learned to be even more blatant town since last game.seth24c wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:41 amThis almost feels like overplaying the “didn't think about it” card.Macca573 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:54 amI would probably go:bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:04 amApparently I was not clear, I would like everyone to please answer this question:
What would you have chosen if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?
Restless spirit
Odd-Night Tracker
Fruit vendor (the give the maf money? I think I read that somewhere?)
Double voter (provided the vote works more than once)
Frankly, the biggest reason is a don't like roles with limited uses, I'd be scared to use them until it's too late.
Important note, I did not do the math for this, I don't know how much debt it is, it may be bad.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
fuck I just realized something
##call gm: can the universal backup inherit the power from the restless spirit?
Thatd be really really bad if scum managed to get their hands on that
(sorry if this was discussed already)
##call gm: can the universal backup inherit the power from the restless spirit?
Thatd be really really bad if scum managed to get their hands on that
(sorry if this was discussed already)
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
Regardless, optimal mafia strategy by far is this:
Recruit
take 3 roles out of these 4: Tracker 1, Tracker 2, Universal backup, Diarist
Give a useless town bulletproof N1 to offset the point imbalance (or do the white flag shit if you have skilled players so you have some points leftover for roleblocks or w/e)
All this nonsense of hunting in the low point roles is -bad-. Those are likely not what mafia have.
Just imagine it like this: Scum have low numbers. They need a way to navigate through the PR minefield. They need ways to deal with 2 doctors, 2 trackers, the diarist and other shit that can find them.
If they take the trackers and diarist for themselves, they cannot be found AND they have the tools to find the doctors easily.
Unless scum are completely ignorant, ^ this is the strategy they likely went with.
Recruit
take 3 roles out of these 4: Tracker 1, Tracker 2, Universal backup, Diarist
Give a useless town bulletproof N1 to offset the point imbalance (or do the white flag shit if you have skilled players so you have some points leftover for roleblocks or w/e)
All this nonsense of hunting in the low point roles is -bad-. Those are likely not what mafia have.
Just imagine it like this: Scum have low numbers. They need a way to navigate through the PR minefield. They need ways to deal with 2 doctors, 2 trackers, the diarist and other shit that can find them.
If they take the trackers and diarist for themselves, they cannot be found AND they have the tools to find the doctors easily.
Unless scum are completely ignorant, ^ this is the strategy they likely went with.
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
the NK on bozo also likely implies they were trying to dodge both doctors
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
continued catchup
Darg. I cannot read darg. But he feels like artificial scum yet againdargorygel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:09 pm@damo
What did i learn from my vote-request?
What I HOPED to learn will not come out till later in the game. I expect that scum would not bus each other during that early phase. So as scum are revealed, we might have some more deductive material.
Ditto. so over-explanatory over basic things. Trying to sound good. He is totally the moscowfleet of this game, aint he?dargorygel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:12 pmI'll change my vote from HR, since it was only there because he surprised me by his silence.
I am going to pick a low hanging fruit, though. Low posters early on are in my scum pool.
Chaqa also had some odd things going on D1. He needs some chipotle, or he is scum.
##VOTE CHAQA
Why darg though? Help me see your thoughts mr damo
Damo is really saying a lot of things im feeling and thinking this game. wtf? That never happens. The weird feeling continues.
This post gives me a sort of bad feeling though. Almost like its Jamiet trying to force through his town meta. Might not mean shit since I have those feelings always when he's town as well, but I have to make the mental note.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:47 pmOk I'm caught up.
Thoughts:
Ghug is annoying and was using a lie to try to push my wagon, so my question remains, is he scum, or bad town?
Teacon is being super weird and even though I didn't find Bozo's survey a useful idea in the first place, Teacon's response to it was very puzzling indeed and I'd like Teacon to explain this.
Fluminator advocating a mass claim, in this setup, because he claims he's desperate to find the Tree Stump, is very suspect. I do not see how outing everyone's role to the Mafia is anything other than a dreadful idea. Is Fluminator scum, or a crazy person?
First time im seeing a chaqa post. And he can go on the scum list straight away.Chaqa wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:45 pmI hadn't put much thought into it, but I would probably do something dumb like going super far negative to get really good roles and a fouth member and day chat and stuff. High risk, High reward.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:12 pm@bo_sox
@Chaqa
@dargorygel
@Hamilton
@HR
@Maniac
@Vecna
Can you please tell me what choices you would have made if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?
If not, can you please tell me why you can't or don't want to answer the question?
What's funnny is, I was thinking and I KNEW you would be doing some crazy meta-mechanical-analysis of the pregame purchases lol
im in my tunnel I guess. This in hindsight feels like....such a bad bad reasoning? Someone was voted and then unvoted? So because there was no claim that makes them scummier during d1? what?dargorygel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:58 pmI am sitting here about to leave the interweb world for awhile... I do think that Fluminator is a good kill, today.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:55 pmI inferred it from you saying that his behaviour was suspect, and I provided some emphasis because I want you to vote for him.dargorygel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:53 pm
Hmmm
This is odd.
When did I say I wanted to vote for him?
I mean, I AM considering it. It seems a better place to rest my vote than on Chaqa's non-posting with slight alibi...
And I should not let the fact that you followed me onto chaqa be a deterrent from me following my own thougts, even though someone is bound to accuse me of sheeping.
I also recall that when I went to sleep, flum had a wagon... and then this morning his wagon seemed to have turned into unvotes. I looked for a claim or something, but I can not find it. If I have missed a reason why everyone bailed, let me know. I will try to check in later.
##VOTE FLUMINATOR
its a completely viable tactic. You only lose the benefit if you somehow dont manage to win before you lose 3 members. Based purely on intuiting id say scum win way more often by just sweeping or semi-sweeping with 1 bus than by their last member delivering it.damo666 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:27 pmRecruit for 80 and quasi sell it back for 20 eh? I hope you are scum with Macca.Hamilton Brian wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:03 pmBecause I am absolutely unclear on much and I think a lot of the ideas are ludicrous (a la Fruit Vendor; how is that a helpful enterprise?). However, given the White Flag offers 20 additional credits, I'd choose that, recruit another. I'm not sure after that.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:12 pm
Can you please tell me what choices you would have made if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?
If not, can you please tell me why you can't or don't want to answer the question?
Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
damo666 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:35 pmI hope you are scum with HBrian and MaccaChaqa wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:45 pmI hadn't put much thought into it, but I would probably do something dumb like going super far negative to get really good roles and a fouth member and day chat and stuff. High risk, High reward.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:12 pm@bo_sox
@Chaqa
@dargorygel
@Hamilton
@HR
@Maniac
@Vecna
Can you please tell me what choices you would have made if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?
If not, can you please tell me why you can't or don't want to answer the question?
What's funnny is, I was thinking and I KNEW you would be doing some crazy meta-mechanical-analysis of the pregame purchases lol
Very interesting that this post of damo attracted HB's attention
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Re: M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread
I agree with Maniac's presentation of what we can learn.
##JAMIET99UK
##JAMIET99UK
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