M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

K, taking some notes for myself mostly

Current townreads most to least:
ghuggles
Macca
teacon
Bunny
Chaqa
Seth
Brian
Jamie (pending Flum; Flum found a scumtell in my play once, so I'm generally inclined to trust these things if he's confident)

That leaves (scummier at the bottom):
Rivera
HR
Maniac
Vecna
-----------
Kgray
Damo
Darg
Bo

I'd vote pretty happily below the line. I really don't like the teacon or Chaqa wagons.

[kgray]

I also agree with Rdrivera that Seth appears to be coasting. Throughout D1 he made comments that suggested he was thinking about people and their arguments and interactions, but then he apparently chose not to share this thinking with the class. He only started actually explaining his thoughts when pressured to do so, mostly by Bo_Sox if I recall.

Last game seth was fairly in-and-out in terms of participation, and I don't think it's scummy to not type everything you're thinking in a stream-of-consciousness type way. But I am still concerned with the way seth talked about the scum mechanics. If bozo is correct that scum would try to force that they didn't know how that works, then seth is my top candidate.

So my post on bozo’s survey, which is quite similar to several others I might add, is your reason to have me at the top of your suspect list? Based on whether bozo is correct that scum would try to force a lack of knowledge on the setup? Even discounting that I am the focus of this post am not at all a fan of this post.

You are not my strongest scumread. I am saying that I think you are the most likely person to have faked not knowing the scum mechanics.

[Chaqa]

I also want to know why Teacon can't tell the difference between Fluminator and Vecna. Their names don't even sound remotely alike.

I noticed that, too. The conspiracy theory part of my soul made me wonder if teacon had been writing a lot to vecna in the QT, and it just slipped out of his fingertips.

OOoooh or what if Vecna is scum UB and teacon let slip that Vecna now is also A restless spirit?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: Tell us a little more about why you potentially lean towards scum on Vecna?

[Chaqa]

Hey guys, I’m about to head home from a friend’s house. Should be able to catch up during the afternoon. Haven’t read past the very verh beginning of the day yet

Hey I just caught up to myself!

[Chaqa]

Chaqa is often useless in the first phase, and this D1 he even stated his intention to do nothing for the first 24 hours, which you may remember I argued with him about. He then posted once last night, which was no more than a threat to vote for me today.

So I say bring it on, Chaqa. I want to see him participate today. If I'm his top scumread I want him to push me. If he thinks Flum's flip confirms that I'm scum, as he implied, I want to know why.

What I see, based on D1, (especially but not exclusively EoD1) and N1 is a Chaqa who will be quite happy to sit back, let Ghug or someone else push a wagon on me, and then join it. I'm not going to settle for that. I want Chaqa to put in some work.

I agree with this. tbh I never expected Chaqa would actually keep a notebook, but his play here is more than just lazy. All he's done is talk about mechanics and stated that he didn't care about the first 24 hours but still hasn't really contributed since. And where he has given reads looks really bad. He was being so hedgy with his Jamie scumread and if Jamie is town then it really looks like Chaqa was setting him up for the next miskill by saying either Jamie or Flum had to be scum, and using Flum's flip to lock in a scumread on Jamie.

##vote Chaqa

How much have you played with Chaqa?

:shockedchaqa:

[Chaqa]

Because why spend the money on a double voter when you can recruit and get an extra vote from that as well as a much higher chance of actually winning

Because if scum don't take double vote they leave that role for town.
Not saying that I would take Double Voter if i was scum, just that I'd have to consider the options.

Hmmm... 18 players. Starts 15-3

If mafia recruit, voting power is 15-4 since each side effectively gains one.
If mafia buy Double Voter, voting power is 15-4, same. BUT the voting power is now concentrated in one of their three players, which means that one player is now much more critical to the team.

I could see it going either way depending on the scum team.

[Chaqa]

Maniac is definitely skimming the thread rather than reading carefully.

Eh, I do that too. I find 90% of what people post is filler anyway

[Chaqa]

Was anyone roleblocked?

Why are you so desperate to know? Worried you'll slip and say who you roleblocked?

I do not have a roleblock. My power is something else. I was not roleblocked. Were you?

No.

[kgray]

@kgray- You said this:

I'm suspicious of both seth and teacon. ...{snip}... his contributions are focused more on either mechanics or general strategies ...

So what's your take on the exchange below? Is it too mechanical or general-strategy for you?

Because if scum don't take double vote they leave that role for town.
Not saying that I would take Double Voter if i was scum, just that I'd have to consider the options.

This is a good point. If the scum team felt strong about the players they have surviving it might make sense for them not to recruit so they are able to pull the stronger roles from town.. Wouldn’t they have been pretty likely to chose the restless spirit in that case though?

Why aren't you out there talking about your vibes on HR or Maniac, who are also talking about general strategies or mechanical issues?

My general feeling about the "what would scum have done" discussions is that it's not helpful until we see scum flip, and even then it's a bunch of wifom. I don't find talking about it to be scummy on its own, but I do think that it's an easy way for scum to appear active without giving reads, which I don't like.

HR has hardly given enough content for me to get a read on him. In my experience he is normally not very active early in games, although I'm not sure I've seen him be this absent. I would prefer he talk more about reads and less about strategies/mechs also, but he's not preaching about how town should be posting with substance so I'm not as bothered by it.

The bulk of Maniac's posts which talk about mechanical issues are him saying that Rivera should be daykilled because of his role, which I don't agree with and I do think is pretty scummy, but he isn't pushing for Rivera's daykill. And he has given other reads and contributed non-mechanics thoughts.

My concern about you isn't that you're talking about general strategies or mechanical issues, it's posts where you say things like town should post reads so they can be held accountable, but then you don't seem to be posting a lot of your own reads even though you're clearly being active and talking about other things. It's the two things together that rub me the wrong way.

[Hamilton Brian]

My opinions are shaped by the questions I ask and the answers I get, so yes and yes. Why are you such a dick?

Are you scum?

Why are you lying about being innocent?

If I asked you what question to ask to reveal your innocent or not, what would it be?

So this is the Hard Cop tactic. Alright. Duly noted.

[kgray]

That is pretty blatant for HR to be scum, though, right? Unless he is being TStbS.

Nevertheless, I'd really like to hear his reasons. Really.

I don't think this is scummy from HR. And I understand his concerns with Kgray, I am not feeling the obvtown vibes she usually gave when she is town. Plus, she is my top choice for a recruit....

This is the first time you express your concerns with kgray after claiming that teacon and I are your picks for the scummiest on the flum wagon. May be confirmation bias on my side but this feels like you trying to find an unrelated reason to scumread her after you gave her a pass at first.

What is your issue with Rivera's suspicion of me? Are you not scumreading me for similarly vague reasons?

[ghug]

@Ghug: Tell us a little more about why you potentially lean towards scum on Vecna?

I don't townread him.

[Hamilton Brian]

Jesus, I leave work, walk home, have a couple of cans on the way there (yeah, I skirt the laws in Ontario), and there's all these pages to catch up on. Y'all are good!

[ghug]

Jesus, I leave work, walk home, have a couple of cans on the way there (yeah, I skirt the laws in Ontario), and there's all these pages to catch up on. Y'all are good!

If you're drunk, please keep posting.

[Chaqa]

What's the point of town FV visiting?

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

Jamie's exactly right here.

That said, FV should only visit once. More than that, and it's likely to confuse the trackers.

fwiw, I hardclaim that I am NOT the FV. If I ever claim as much, eliminate me.

The only reason I'm talking about the FV this much at all is for the sake of PoE with the low-cost roles. Sad to say it, but it might take another death and role-reveal to get more information.

I don't see why the Fruit Vendor would ever use their ability as town.

[Hamilton Brian]

Jesus, I leave work, walk home, have a couple of cans on the way there (yeah, I skirt the laws in Ontario), and there's all these pages to catch up on. Y'all are good!

If you're drunk, please keep posting.

Yeah, not yet (drunk). I said a couple of cans. I'll see if my wife wants to tap the lactose IPA I kegged for her last weekend. Then we'll get the best/worst town HB possible.

[kgray]

People I won’t vote for today:

Rdriveria – I’m not even going to bother reading him. If I had to guess I’d say he is town. If he is, he knows it’s a team game and why we have to kill him before too long. Hopefully he’ll put in some spade work and leave us with some useful insights.

Bo_Sox – I’ve isolated and skimmed Bo and can’t find anything that jumps out as scummy to me.
Ghug – someone else I’ve isolated. He doesn’t appear out of character (apart from Haikus obviously), small question mark over whether he is super engaged, but I think I need more than that to vote for him today.
HR – Not contributing much. But could be a key player towards the end IIRC
Hamilton – seems to participate. Nothing shady
Dargorygel – seems engaged and trying to solve the puzzle.

People I need to look at more closely and could be persuaded to vote for:

Kgray, macca, Teacon7 (very slight town lean)

People I could vote for today:

Jamie, Damo, Bunny, Chaqa, Vecna

Jamie I’ve reassessed completely. I had him as fairly solid town because of his opening spat with me, but now I’m really not sure about him. His DK could help in D1 voter analysis. His participation seems to ebb and flow and lots of words as if spamming the thread to make t harder for us all, I know that can be his style. I just feel this game, he could be scum.
Of the other four, none of them would be a big loss to our efforts to solve the puzzle. All need to do more. This game will depend on people working harder I think.

##vote Chaqa

What was ghug doing/not doing D1 that made you scumread him? I see you said your initial read was more of a feeling, but why is he now in your no-vote pile after being your strongest scumread earlier?

What is the difference in your mind between HR and Vecna here? I think they're similarly valuable late-game if town and are similarly absent. Why is HR in your no-kill pile but Vecna is in your would-kill pile?

[Hamilton Brian]

I have to say, all of these roles make me want to gouge out my eyes. I can't keep track. I almost need to watch this one play out to make sense next time.

[Chaqa]

I know you’ve had bad work day, but do you accept that you role has doomed you to an early death? That being the case you can put all your game effort into a few days and your reads and thoughts will be useful to us later.

Please work extra hard for a few days so I don’t have to.

Maniac-rivera scum teammates? lol

You think it's likely the Public Vanilla is scum?

Considering it's a 0-cost role, I could see it being one they would choose if they recruited.