M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[teacon7]

Why would an outed mafia fakeclaim fruit vendor.

Teacon, I really don't think you're scum, but you need to stop advocating pro-scum policy.

maf would have to fake that they were visiting someone for the sake of the role.

"I'm the fruit vendor, that's why I was there, I had no idea he'd be dead when I got there."

[Chaqa]

He voted for bo to sheep me.

Then he voted for teacon four times to suggest we should think about it more.

Then he voted for me, Seth, and teacon, to suggest we're his townreads, with Jamie at the end as the signal the list was over.

Then he voted for bo to sheep me again.

Thanks!

Wait, is that all true? I wasn't paying attention enough to the codes because I figured it would be ruled against or something

[Chaqa]

Well, one has to wonder why the scum team would choose to have a role that people are going to be asking "why on earth are they still alive" if they make it even into the midgame

Why on earth would scum waste a NK on a known vanilla player when there are PRs to hunt?

prs dont win games. poe pools with tons of townread people do. the prs in this setup arent very strong regardless from what i remember of the list

This is the Vecna I know and love to make buy me Chipotle.

[teacon7]

Okay, I'm going to out a strategy I use as scum sometimes, but it's basically what he does here - deferrence to the townclears. This is a great scum tactic that I think teacon is using here to make himself seem part of the town but also shirk all responsibility for thought or being wrong.

Yeah I agree with you. Don't sheep the townclear. I even said as much in my post.

We'd also be stupid not to listen to what a known clear has to say. As it is, it's difficult to communicate. Just keep reading.

[Chaqa]

Teacon's last messages remembered me of that game he and Xorxes fight all over the game and both were town. I don't want to go this way.

I will change to
##vote Seth - He is coasting.

I know you’ve had bad work day, but do you accept that you role has doomed you to an early death? That being the case you can put all your game effort into a few days and your reads and thoughts will be useful to us later.

Please work extra hard for a few days so I don’t have to.

Maniac-rivera scum teammates? lol

[teacon7]

##callGM - if/when the UB dies, what is revealed? That the player was the UB? Or what role they adopted? Will the death text tell us both, or just one?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm guessing that the low-cost mafia member is between the neighborizer and the PV.

I'm not in the neighborhood QT, but those who are (if any), should probably ask themselves some questions.

Why would an outed mafia fakeclaim fruit vendor[?]

Teacon, I really don't think you're scum, but you need to stop advocating pro-scum policy.

I agree with Ghug here.

Not to give the scum any advice, but if you're outed / caught as scum and you're on the block, the sensible play is to claim a powerful town role with only a couple of minutes to go. That way, either the real PR doesn't counter-claim in time, and you might survive as people jump off you, or they do counter-claim and even though you die, your Mafia buddies now know the identity of a major town PR.

Fruit Vendor is not what I'd claim on the block as scum in this came, for sure.

[Jamiet99uk]

Teacon's last messages remembered me of that game he and Xorxes fight all over the game and both were town. I don't want to go this way.

I will change to
##vote Seth - He is coasting.

I know you’ve had bad work day, but do you accept that you role has doomed you to an early death? That being the case you can put all your game effort into a few days and your reads and thoughts will be useful to us later.

Please work extra hard for a few days so I don’t have to.

Maniac-rivera scum teammates? lol

You think it's likely the Public Vanilla is scum?

[ghug]

@@Flum. My scumread of Jamie is waning. Please rate your confidence in his scumtell being legit on a scale of 1 (you were making it up) - 5 (you'd consider making a pizza bet if it weren't immoral) by voting him that number of times consecutively.

[Chaqa]

I am concerned about Kgray continuing to push the "Jamie is unreasonably convinced that Ghug is town" line of questioning / argument:

I hope you're being pretend accepting of this view for the purposes of questioning rather than actually buying it, because that would be dumb, and faux acceptance is just scummy.

I am trying to understand why Jamie is so sure that you're town even though he claims you are telling lies. That is very unlike the Jamie I know.

Even after I gave Kgray this explanation:

Why do you townread ghug? What has he done that's townie enough to make up for the bad reasons he's given for scumreading you?

First of all, just because someone has an inaccurate or poorly-argued scumread on me, that doesn't make them scum, it makes them wrong. Townies are often wrong.

Second of all, I think that town Ghug is more likely to tunnel someone based on loose instinct, and I am not sure that scum Ghug would be acting this way.

I did have a stronger reason which temporarily made me almost completely certain, but I've established I can't be sure of that - and I'm not able to elaborate on that point right now. But, my gut is still telling me Ghug is town. I could be wrong...

Emphasis added.

It's as if Kgray is more interested in seeing something scummy in my interactions with Ghug, than in properly assessing my answers to these questions.

That is very unlike the Kgray I know.

This actually jives pretty well with me. Maybe we did have TvT on Day 1?

[Maniac]

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

Interesting phraseology. How do you know Teacon7's death would be a mis-killing?

I was responding to Teacon, who had been asking me about whether he seemed like "an easy elimination target". Teacon is hardly likely to describe himself as a great target who's certain to flip scum, is he?

"easy elimination target" =/= "mis-kill". You used mis-kill and I was asking why. I'm not at all convinced by your answer.

[Chaqa]

##VOTE CHAQA

I was really hoping your next vote would be for kgray after you just raised a good point on her sus.

Sigh.

[kgray]

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

Are you talking about me? I didn't say he didn't post EoN reads, and I didn't see where anybody else said that either.

[kgray]

Chaqa is often useless in the first phase, and this D1 he even stated his intention to do nothing for the first 24 hours, which you may remember I argued with him about. He then posted once last night, which was no more than a threat to vote for me today.

So I say bring it on, Chaqa. I want to see him participate today. If I'm his top scumread I want him to push me. If he thinks Flum's flip confirms that I'm scum, as he implied, I want to know why.

What I see, based on D1, (especially but not exclusively EoD1) and N1 is a Chaqa who will be quite happy to sit back, let Ghug or someone else push a wagon on me, and then join it. I'm not going to settle for that. I want Chaqa to put in some work.

I agree with this. tbh I never expected Chaqa would actually keep a notebook, but his play here is more than just lazy. All he's done is talk about mechanics and stated that he didn't care about the first 24 hours but still hasn't really contributed since. And where he has given reads looks really bad. He was being so hedgy with his Jamie scumread and if Jamie is town then it really looks like Chaqa was setting him up for the next miskill by saying either Jamie or Flum had to be scum, and using Flum's flip to lock in a scumread on Jamie.

##vote Chaqa

How much have you played with Chaqa?

Maybe like half my games? One where we were both scum, one was my first game, and one was last game where he was cleared D1.

Do you think I'm wrong about this being scummy from him?

[Maniac]

Interesting phraseology. How do you know Teacon7's death would be a mis-killing?

I was responding to Teacon, who had been asking me about whether he seemed like "an easy elimination target". Teacon is hardly likely to describe himself as a great target who's certain to flip scum, is he?

"easy elimination target" =/= "mis-kill". You used mis-kill and I was asking why. I'm not at all convinced by your answer.

@ghug and @Flum -please read above before moving away from a Jamie DK

[Jamiet99uk]

Interesting phraseology. How do you know Teacon7's death would be a mis-killing?

I was responding to Teacon, who had been asking me about whether he seemed like "an easy elimination target". Teacon is hardly likely to describe himself as a great target who's certain to flip scum, is he?

"easy elimination target" =/= "mis-kill". You used mis-kill and I was asking why. I'm not at all convinced by your answer.

You think the scum would try to eliminate a member of the scum team?

Interesting strategic viewpoint.

[Chaqa]

##VOTE CHAQA

Welcome back, Jamie...

Why chaqa? I was just wondering where to move my vote off from teacon, and was thinking about chaqa.

It's a small thing... but I keep thinking about his notebook. Still no notes. And i find that stated intentions unfulfilled CAN be a scumtell.

This is fair, and it's something I do as both town and scum. I always have the best intentions

I'm doing my best to keep mental notes. My overall feelings so far:

I've had a good solid town vibe from ghug. This hasn't really changed. I know he pulled a fast one on a lot of people last game so I'm scrutinizing him, but the "warm and fuzzies" I have been talking about are still there.

I also feel pretty good about Bo. I quoted some posts that showed why over my catching up process.

Jamiet I was feeling very down on, but his post about kgray and general demeanor at EoD did seem pretty reasonable. So startingt o lean back toward null now. That said...

Kgray seems scummy. I hadn't noticed it until Jamie pointed it out, but I'm keeping an eye on her as we go forward.

HB and Vecna also gave me reasonable town vibes.

[Jamiet99uk]

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

Are you talking about me? I didn't say he didn't post EoN reads, and I didn't see where anybody else said that either.

Teacon said it.

[Jamiet99uk]

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

Are you talking about me? I didn't say he didn't post EoN reads, and I didn't see where anybody else said that either.

Teacon said it.

Very paranoid response there, Kgray, assuming people are talking about you when they're not even talking about you, and gave no indication they were talking about you.

[Chaqa]

Oh yeah, as an addendum to my above post, teacon also rubs me very wrong.