M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

Why the town FV should visit, can't see what's the benefit.

Because the expectation that the fruit vendor should visit forces the scum fruit vendor to visit, which is bad for scum.

The fruit vendor specifically gives scum money because it's worse for them than no role, but it's only worse for them than no role if we force them to use it.

I don't think there's that much risk in confusing the tracker as long as the recipient claims it every day.

Suppose town FV visit someone NKed or RBed. Don't you think it can confuse the Tracker or Voyeur?

The Voyeur would know it was a protective action that didn't save. Since the governor is dead, it points to the fruit vendor.

The tracker would see the vendor visiting, yes. If you give fruit to someone on the night they die, you should probably just claim immediately.

[teacon7]

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

No clue. Most of them are new to me, thus harder to read. bamilton and seth seem honest enough right now. I think the majority of them are scumhunting in their own way, so idk how to tell yet.

You must remember Damo.

Do you think Damo is trying to get you mis-killed?

Best I can tell, damo seems disengaged. lurky. he said at the beginning that he wouldn't be around as much for a few days, so it's probably NAI. But the lack of presence does make it more difficult to remember his contributions. I don't think he was actively trying to get me killed at all, so much as "meet his posting requirements"

lowposting .... what a great place for scum to hide while high-volume posters get picked off by the mob.

HEY @BUNNY WHERE ARE YOU

[Chaqa]

Can we presume that mafia would take that role (Double Voter)? It's a hell of an expensive role to grab.

According to the mafiascum wiki: As a general rule, a Town Doublevoter's second vote is wasted if it is not on the same player as the Doublevoter's first vote. The exception is the simultaneous-hammer scenario detailed in "Variations".

For scum, Doublevoter is immensely valuable because...

If mafia are throwing the double vote on Flum, what's the value of keeping the vote on them when they passed the tie mark? Is it possible this was a vote that was placed when the player was going to be absent for a lengthy period of time, and their actual vote is sitting on someone else? Or it was an early voter with the extra vote thrown on for good measure?

Spitballing here and I know I am probably not getting my thoughts out clearly.

This makes me think HB is town.

Bo, what did you get from the last post that made you so sure?

Ghug, you and I seem to be syncing up this game -

I'm feeling really good about Bo right now, even though he's the worst, I strongly think he's town for once. Would you agree?

[Chaqa]

Mmmm that’s interesting. Dargorygil was making a case against Ghug and Bo. I said I thought he was on to something and flum indicated he was going to sheep dargorygil (if I got that right) and then dargorygil peels off and votes teacon7

IF dargorygil and Ghug/bo we’re scum buddies that’s what he would try and do.

Be interesting to see how dargorygil plays rest of the day

Dargo is real easy to catch as scum. I don't get those vibes from him right now.

[ghug]

Can we presume that mafia would take that role (Double Voter)? It's a hell of an expensive role to grab.

According to the mafiascum wiki: As a general rule, a Town Doublevoter's second vote is wasted if it is not on the same player as the Doublevoter's first vote. The exception is the simultaneous-hammer scenario detailed in "Variations".

For scum, Doublevoter is immensely valuable because...

If mafia are throwing the double vote on Flum, what's the value of keeping the vote on them when they passed the tie mark? Is it possible this was a vote that was placed when the player was going to be absent for a lengthy period of time, and their actual vote is sitting on someone else? Or it was an early voter with the extra vote thrown on for good measure?

Spitballing here and I know I am probably not getting my thoughts out clearly.

This makes me think HB is town.

Bo, what did you get from the last post that made you so sure?

Ghug, you and I seem to be syncing up this game -

I'm feeling really good about Bo right now, even though he's the worst, I strongly think he's town for once. Would you agree?

I'm voting for him, bud.

[ghug]

I don't think scum Chaqa buddies me this hard or spends this much time trying to establish scumreads.

[ghug]

Establish townreads*

[rdrivera2005]

Because the expectation that the fruit vendor should visit forces the scum fruit vendor to visit, which is bad for scum.

The fruit vendor specifically gives scum money because it's worse for them than no role, but it's only worse for them than no role if we force them to use it.

I don't think there's that much risk in confusing the tracker as long as the recipient claims it every day.

Suppose town FV visit someone NKed or RBed. Don't you think it can confuse the Tracker or Voyeur?

How could it confuse the Voyeur?

It won't, I thought it was like a Watcher, but he sees the action not the person.

[Chaqa]

This might be a futile exercise but I want to go through the Players dropping an early vote then "disappearing." I am pursuing this because I think the "double" vote on Flum was accidental.

It wouldn't be HR since they didn't cast any vote. That doesn't clear them from being mafia.

Stop looking for the double voter. They're very likely to be town.

Are we sure mafia would recruit?

[Chaqa]

Because why spend the money on a double voter when you can recruit and get an extra vote from that as well as a much higher chance of actually winning

This makes a lot of sense to me.

[Chaqa]

##vote kgray

This makes less sense to me.

[teacon7]

Because the expectation that the fruit vendor should visit forces the scum fruit vendor to visit, which is bad for scum.

The fruit vendor specifically gives scum money because it's worse for them than no role, but it's only worse for them than no role if we force them to use it.

I don't think there's that much risk in confusing the tracker as long as the recipient claims it every day.

Suppose town FV visit someone NKed or RBed. Don't you think it can confuse the Tracker or Voyeur?

The Voyeur would know it was a protective action that didn't save. Since the governor is dead, it points to the fruit vendor.

The tracker would see the vendor visiting, yes. If you give fruit to someone on the night they die, you should probably just claim immediately.

We want to be able to prevent an outed mafia from starting a fruit vendor CC battle. I think we have enough information for that right now.

I'm guessing that the low-cost mafia member is between the neighborizer and the PV.

I'm not in the neighborhood QT, but those who are (if any), should probably ask themselves some questions.

[teacon7]

Are we sure mafia would recruit?

Hey flavius. No, we're not sure. Do you think they wouldn't recruit?

[Chaqa]

Well, Bozo's dead, that's sad.

The backup is now the Governor (probably, I don't think Bozo used the charge), so we probably have it still. (I wouldn't think scum would grab this, why not just take the role you want), (unless the recruit has it).

Wouldn't the backup be the Restless Spirit?

Would they have the same power as Flum where they have to die to use it? Or are they essentially a VT now?

[ghug]

Suppose town FV visit someone NKed or RBed. Don't you think it can confuse the Tracker or Voyeur?

The Voyeur would know it was a protective action that didn't save. Since the governor is dead, it points to the fruit vendor.

The tracker would see the vendor visiting, yes. If you give fruit to someone on the night they die, you should probably just claim immediately.

We want to be able to prevent an outed mafia from starting a fruit vendor CC battle. I think we have enough information for that right now.

I'm guessing that the low-cost mafia member is between the neighborizer and the PV.

I'm not in the neighborhood QT, but those who are (if any), should probably ask themselves some questions.

Why would an outed mafia fakeclaim fruit vendor.

Teacon, I really don't think you're scum, but you need to stop advocating pro-scum policy.

[ghug]

##CALLGM

What happens with the Universal Backup if the Restless Spirit is the first to die?

[Chaqa]

Alright I'm back after putting kids to bed. time to catch up from where I left off.


@flum
@ghug
@all

I think we have a great opportunity here - we have a townclear. We can communicate with him. Flum's reads aren't automatically better because he's townclear, but we'd be stupid not to listen to what he says.

I don't really care how we communicate. My plan was more qualitative, ghug's is more direct. Either way, we want to give him the ability to speak with some degree of meaning to particular issues. The %%vote %%vOtE %%VOTE framework provides some degree of quality to what he's saying - he can comment "live" on how he's feeling about various people, though perhaps not particular posts. Asking direct questions means we'd have to figure out which question he's answering.

@flum vote me twice in a row for yes, 3x in a row for no, 4x in a row for "think about it more."

kinda feels like a robo-call to the underworld.

Okay, I'm going to out a strategy I use as scum sometimes, but it's basically what he does here - deferrence to the townclears. This is a great scum tactic that I think teacon is using here to make himself seem part of the town but also shirk all responsibility for thought or being wrong.

[teacon7]

You are ignoring Tree Stump or taking for granted scum choosed it?

I've largely been ignoring it, but... that's a really good question. I shouldn't be ignoring it.

It's not like an eliminated scum would get much use out of deadposting as the stump... they're more likely to screw up and slip, revealing their teammates. So the only reason scum would choose that role is for the +2 points. I don't think the +2 is worth it if there are other concerns (like explaining why a teammate didn't get nk'd), but you might be right.

I'm only imagining one scum among the low-value roles, but you've got a point. We should add tree stump to that list.

[Chaqa]

-- snipped --

-- snipped --

##VOTE bo

Guess that answers my question.

[Chaqa]

You know, that actually is a good point given that Jamie and I just watched and were rather impressed by ghug fooling everyone and looking like the towniest player alive for 5 days straight.

Is ghug marinated us?

Or is he a good crewmate doing his tasks?