M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Jamiet99uk]

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

[teacon7]

@rivera & all

Do you think a scum!FruitVendor would visit people and give them fruit?

No. Scum FV visiting someone is absolutely stupid, unless he is under pressure and want to be able to claim his role.

But the question isn't this. Have Damo really claimed he was visited by the FV?

I feel like town fruit vendor visits every night, so scum fruit vendor would have to.

Hm. I don't think the town FV should visit EVERY night... too many chances for confusing trackers. Just one visit ought to be enough.

[seth24c]

I never scumread Jamiet, he is more on a null position. I see some scummy posts, but his overall play seems towny.

Teacon I still have some doubts, but I don't want to keep tunneling him.

Kgray I also addressed before if you are reading, I can't point a scummy thing, but she didn't obvtowned as usual when she is town.

And your scumread on me does appear to be based at least somewhat upon my flum vote because the only other time you have justified it was because I was “coasting”. You also said that you would have switched to Jamie if you had been around for eod even after the day had already ended.

Yes, I have a townread on Flum so I would have voted Jamiet over him.

And I think you are coasting. And I don't like the way you distort (at least on my POV) arguments and hedge a lot when you give your opinions. I remember quite easily sorting you as town last game on D1.

I’m not seeing how I’m distorting any arguements. People talk about how I hedge every game. I was heavily scumread last game and nearly misskilled?

[seth24c]

And your scumread on me does appear to be based at least somewhat upon my flum vote because the only other time you have justified it was because I was “coasting”. You also said that you would have switched to Jamie if you had been around for eod even after the day had already ended.

Yes, I have a townread on Flum so I would have voted Jamiet over him.

And I think you are coasting. And I don't like the way you distort (at least on my POV) arguments and hedge a lot when you give your opinions. I remember quite easily sorting you as town last game on D1.

I’m not seeing how I’m distorting any arguements. People talk about how I hedge every game. I was heavily scumread last game and nearly misskilled?

But I guess you did die n1 last game so you may not have remembered that part.

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like town fruit vendor visits every night, so scum fruit vendor would have to.

It's not what is written on the role description (page 1, won't copy as I am on phone).

Yeah Ghug is wrong about this.

The Fruit Vendor role says *may* visit, not *must* visit. There's nothing to suggest the visiting is compulsive / mandatory.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hm. I don't think the town FV should visit EVERY night... too many chances for confusing trackers. Just one visit ought to be enough.

Do you want the town to die of scurvy?

Tsk.

[ghug]

No. Scum FV visiting someone is absolutely stupid, unless he is under pressure and want to be able to claim his role.

But the question isn't this. Have Damo really claimed he was visited by the FV?

I feel like town fruit vendor visits every night, so scum fruit vendor would have to.

It's not what is written on the role description (page 1, won't copy as I am on phone).

I don't mean it's a mechanical requirement, I mean that we can establish that a town fruit vendor should visit every night, and thus a scum fruit vendor must as well, or out that they had reason not to.

[rdrivera2005]

Hm. I don't think the town FV should visit EVERY night... too many chances for confusing trackers. Just one visit ought to be enough.

Do you want the town to die of scurvy?

Tsk.

I honestly don't see any reason for either town or scum FV to visit someone. Town FV could mess with the Trackers and scum PV is the best role to carry NK or any other action.
What's the point of town FV visiting?

[rdrivera2005]

I feel like town fruit vendor visits every night, so scum fruit vendor would have to.

It's not what is written on the role description (page 1, won't copy as I am on phone).

I don't mean it's a mechanical requirement, I mean that we can establish that a town fruit vendor should visit every night, and thus a scum fruit vendor must as well, or out that they had reason not to.

Why the town FV should visit, can't see what's the benefit.

[Maniac]

People I won’t vote for today:

Rdriveria – I’m not even going to bother reading him. If I had to guess I’d say he is town. If he is, he knows it’s a team game and why we have to kill him before too long. Hopefully he’ll put in some spade work and leave us with some useful insights.

Bo_Sox – I’ve isolated and skimmed Bo and can’t find anything that jumps out as scummy to me.
Ghug – someone else I’ve isolated. He doesn’t appear out of character (apart from Haikus obviously), small question mark over whether he is super engaged, but I think I need more than that to vote for him today.
HR – Not contributing much. But could be a key player towards the end IIRC
Hamilton – seems to participate. Nothing shady
Dargorygel – seems engaged and trying to solve the puzzle.

People I need to look at more closely and could be persuaded to vote for:

Kgray, macca, Teacon7 (very slight town lean)

People I could vote for today:

Jamie, Damo, Bunny, Chaqa, Vecna

Jamie I’ve reassessed completely. I had him as fairly solid town because of his opening spat with me, but now I’m really not sure about him. His DK could help in D1 voter analysis. His participation seems to ebb and flow and lots of words as if spamming the thread to make t harder for us all, I know that can be his style. I just feel this game, he could be scum.
Of the other four, none of them would be a big loss to our efforts to solve the puzzle. All need to do more. This game will depend on people working harder I think.

##vote Chaqa

[Maniac]

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

Interesting phraseology. How do you know Teacon7's death would be a mis-killing?

[Jamiet99uk]

Hm. I don't think the town FV should visit EVERY night... too many chances for confusing trackers. Just one visit ought to be enough.

Do you want the town to die of scurvy?

Tsk.

I honestly don't see any reason for either town or scum FV to visit someone. Town FV could mess with the Trackers and scum PV is the best role to carry NK or any other action.
What's the point of town FV visiting?

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

Interesting phraseology. How do you know Teacon7's death would be a mis-killing?

I was responding to Teacon, who had been asking me about whether he seemed like "an easy elimination target". Teacon is hardly likely to describe himself as a great target who's certain to flip scum, is he?

[seth24c]

Do you want the town to die of scurvy?

Tsk.

I honestly don't see any reason for either town or scum FV to visit someone. Town FV could mess with the Trackers and scum PV is the best role to carry NK or any other action.
What's the point of town FV visiting?

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

But that wouldn’t tell alignment?

[Jamiet99uk]

Maniac is definitely skimming the thread rather than reading carefully.

[Jamiet99uk]

I honestly don't see any reason for either town or scum FV to visit someone. Town FV could mess with the Trackers and scum PV is the best role to carry NK or any other action.
What's the point of town FV visiting?

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

But that wouldn’t tell alignment?

Yes, lol, of course it would. If you're forced to claim because you're on the block (i.e., about to be wrongly hanged as town), you *want* people to know that your alignment is town, duh.

[ghug]

It's not what is written on the role description (page 1, won't copy as I am on phone).

I don't mean it's a mechanical requirement, I mean that we can establish that a town fruit vendor should visit every night, and thus a scum fruit vendor must as well, or out that they had reason not to.

Why the town FV should visit, can't see what's the benefit.

Because the expectation that the fruit vendor should visit forces the scum fruit vendor to visit, which is bad for scum.

The fruit vendor specifically gives scum money because it's worse for them than no role, but it's only worse for them than no role if we force them to use it.

I don't think there's that much risk in confusing the tracker as long as the recipient claims it every day.

[teacon7]

Also, it seems like there's probably at least one scum among the people badgering me today. I guess I look like an easy-elimination?

@jamie, any thoughts on that? do I look like an easy elimination target?

Potentially. Certainly you don't appear to be widely townread, and your D1 play seemed to confuse quite a few people.

I take it you asked me specifically, because I have a lot of experience of being targeted by scum as an easy elimination target?

Noted, and... yeah, you're probably right. Again, sorry for the confusion. I march to the beat of my own drum, and that doesn't always play well.

I asked you specifically because you were the other main wagon D1. I was a tertiary wagon. imo opportunistic scum tries to hop onto easy elimination targets. Looks like I'm easier to eliminate than you are.

Assuming there's scum among the people pushing me today, either:

• We have opportunistic scum who aren't confident enough to tackle you, or
• Flum/Jamie wasTvS, some of the late-movers saved you, and are trying to do the same today.

I think it's the former case, but can't rule out the latter.

@Teacon: Which of the people voting for you do you think is trying to lead your mis-killing on behalf of the scum team? Bamilton?

No clue. Most of them are new to me, thus harder to read. bamilton and seth seem honest enough right now. I think the majority of them are scumhunting in their own way, so idk how to tell yet.

@kgray - did you see my question about general mechanics, HR and Maniac / etc?

[seth24c]

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

But that wouldn’t tell alignment?

Yes, lol, of course it would. If you're forced to claim because you're on the block (i.e., about to be wrongly hanged as town), you *want* people to know that your alignment is town, duh.

So you know the fruit vendor is town aligned?

[Jamiet99uk]

Well, first of all, it can be used to confirm a claim later if the FV is on the block, because they can say who they gave fruit to, and those people can confirm they they got a fruit.

But that wouldn’t tell alignment?

Yes, lol, of course it would. If you're forced to claim because you're on the block (i.e., about to be wrongly hanged as town), you *want* people to know that your alignment is town, duh.

LOL at myself. Sorry, Seth, I answered too quickly. How ironic.

I apologise. Yes you are right that this would not confirm the FV's alignment, but it would confirm their claim about their role, which could still be relevant if they're town about to be miskilled...