M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[teacon7]

I also want to know why Teacon can't tell the difference between Fluminator and Vecna. Their names don't even sound remotely alike.

yeah that was a derp moment. I meant fluminator.

How could you possibly have confused them??

They're not remotely the same. It was late, I derped, and typed the wrong name.

[Jamiet99uk]

I feel like you're trying to ascribe mathematical relationships that may or may not be relevant or accurate to determine something that...<shoulder shrug>.

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

I take your post on page 77 as a gratuitous discourse on...I don't know, game theory? Trying to quantify something that is personality-driven?

Obfuscation. If you're not mafia, hunt mafia.

Strong post from Bamilton. Strong.

This scores town points.

@Teacon: Why did you demand EoN reads but then give no EoN reads yourself?

[teacon7]

@teacon,

Can I ask what you were hoping to gain with this exercise?

"let c = _____ = "how much the PV role helps scum"
let e = _____ = probability that scum chose to recruit
let m(rdrivera) = _____ = probability that the player dies early (either due to fearNK as town, or due to fearDK as scum)"

Maybe you forgot what I was talking about d1, but I was trying to figure out how likely scum was to choose the PV role.
I made some equations, to deterine that probability. Those variables are the inputs.
As it turns out, different inputs change whether or not people think it's probable that scum chose the PV.

I asked bozo for his inputs because I wanted to match my conclusions against someone elses.
My values produced the conclusions I had made earlier. bozo's values also produced the conclusions he reached earlier.
So the equation seemed to track-with and describe what were doing intuitively. ::shrug::

I still think it's probable that scum chose the PV, but it depends on the values scum would assign to those variables, to predict their decision. We can't know that information yet. Now that it's d2 and we have better information to work with, I'm pursuing other avenues. Why are you bringing this up?

I feel like you're trying to ascribe mathematical relationships that may or may not be relevant or accurate to determine something that...<shoulder shrug>.

Kinda sounds like you're saying:
"I don't understand what he's doing, the only scumhunting is my way of scumhunting, therefore he's not scumhunting."

The mathematical relationships may or may not be relevant or accurate. Based on bozo's inputs, the model predicted something rightly. What values would you give to the variables?

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

I posted mine on page 70.

I take your post on page 77 as a gratuitous discourse on...I don't know, game theory? Trying to quantify something that is personality-driven?

It wasn't really gratuitious. On page 77, I was responding to bo, who asked me a question. The BBcode quoting got messed up, so maybe that made it unclear who was talking.

A question though - I don't know what do you mean by "trying to quantify something that is personality driven." What is the thing that you're saying is personality driven?

Obfuscation. If you're not mafia, hunt mafia.

HB: "I don't get what you're doing. Therefore it's obfuscation"

[ghug]

Enjoying banana

Bananas are the devils fruit. This could be a scum slip

Like this post

[Jamiet99uk]

@Teacon:

Why didn't you mention Damo, at all, until he had a banana?

[Hamilton Brian]

Shifting focus for a moment, Bunny's one contribution during N1 was this gem amongst some reads: "If I didn’t mention you, then post more and be better."

But then the rabbit's gone missing.

[teacon7]

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

@Teacon: Why did you demand EoN reads but then give no EoN reads yourself?

How convincing is hamilton's argument if he can't be bothered to read or understand the people he's playing with?


I'm not saying they're great, but here they are:

okay so I got called to something (at work), but here are the reads I have:



bunnygo is acting differently than the games I've played or read him in. scumlean.

ghug seemed like he's been buddying people. His ratio of text to content seems higher than I remember for town ghug. I'm also curious - and want to do a re-read on... whether he's been addressing people's character or actions more. scumlean.

scumlean on rivera for reasons I've talked about before.

townlean on kgray for asking good questions.

townlean on bozo for the same reasons.

null on everyone else.


sorry if this is past time. please continue not to post.

[ghug]

Welcome back, Jamie...

Why chaqa? I was just wondering where to move my vote off from teacon, and was thinking about chaqa.

It's a small thing... but I keep thinking about his notebook. Still no notes. And i find that stated intentions unfulfilled CAN be a scumtell.

Chaqa is often useless in the first phase, and this D1 he even stated his intention to do nothing for the first 24 hours, which you may remember I argued with him about. He then posted once last night, which was no more than a threat to vote for me today.

So I say bring it on, Chaqa. I want to see him participate today. If I'm his top scumread I want him to push me. If he thinks Flum's flip confirms that I'm scum, as he implied, I want to know why.

What I see, based on D1, (especially but not exclusively EoD1) and N1 is a Chaqa who will be quite happy to sit back, let Ghug or someone else push a wagon on me, and then join it. I'm not going to settle for that. I want Chaqa to put in some work.

I agree with this. tbh I never expected Chaqa would actually keep a notebook, but his play here is more than just lazy. All he's done is talk about mechanics and stated that he didn't care about the first 24 hours but still hasn't really contributed since. And where he has given reads looks really bad. He was being so hedgy with his Jamie scumread and if Jamie is town then it really looks like Chaqa was setting him up for the next miskill by saying either Jamie or Flum had to be scum, and using Flum's flip to lock in a scumread on Jamie.

##vote Chaqa

How much have you played with Chaqa?

[ghug]

Agree this is suspiciously weird.

##vote teacon

I think this a really bad reason to vote someone.

It's all I've got at the moment. Not particularly scumreading anyone tbh.

First damo vote I've liked but I also hate it

[Jamiet99uk]

"You all should do EON reads." As someone else mentioned, a lot of talk about doing EoN reads, but no EoN reads.

@Teacon: Why did you demand EoN reads but then give no EoN reads yourself?

How convincing is hamilton's argument if he can't be bothered to read or understand the people he's playing with?


I'm not saying they're great, but here they are:

okay so I got called to something (at work), but here are the reads I have:

bunnygo is acting differently than the games I've played or read him in. scumlean.

ghug seemed like he's been buddying people. His ratio of text to content seems higher than I remember for town ghug. I'm also curious - and want to do a re-read on... whether he's been addressing people's character or actions more. scumlean.

scumlean on rivera for reasons I've talked about before.

townlean on kgray for asking good questions.

townlean on bozo for the same reasons.

null on everyone else.

sorry if this is past time. please continue not to post.

Ah, you see, the problem was, you posted them after the deadline.

When I saw Hamilton's post, I went back and looked at EoN myself to see if he was right. I only read up to the GM's "Please Hold" post and therefore I saw no EoN reads from you.

[teacon7]

@Teacon:

Why didn't you mention Damo, at all, until he had a banana?

Didn't mention him before because he's not playing in a way that makes him memorable. he did say he was going to be "on a mini break," but it's effectively making him a lowposter right now.

He said "enjoying banana." The banana means the fruit vendor visited him.

I want to know what people thought about that. It's more interesting to me than large quote blocks about whether or not ghug/kgray/jamiet can read and understand each other's posts.

idk why a town FV would visit anyone at all. for the lols?

I guess a scum FV would visit iff they weren't doing other actions (FV is cheap, but a minor liability for scum). I asked rivera in particular because he thinks scum would have chosen the FV.

[teacon7]

I think this a really bad reason to vote someone.

It's all I've got at the moment. Not particularly scumreading anyone tbh.

First damo vote I've liked but I also hate it

Why is this, @ghug?

[teacon7]

@rivera & all

Do you think a scum!FruitVendor would visit people and give them fruit?

[seth24c]

It depends on how much he really thinks my feelings about last game affected my vote. If he thinks it was the main reason and doesn't take issue with that, then yes.

I'm slightly more concerned that he's giving bo town points for trying to shake things up and complaining about a runaway wagon when he was online 16 minutes before EOD and kept his vote on teacon, who rivera even admits wasn't going to be the kill, even after saying he'd join Jamie - who was a bigger wagon and (from my perspective) seemed much more likely to be the daykill.

I agree completely, that struck me at the time and was one of the things that pushed me away from the Jamie wagon. Rdr can you explain?

I wasn't expecting to be called by my boss for an urgent meeting and lose EOD. I didn't move my vote because when I leave Teacon was still a viable wagon (it was 4-4-3 I guess) and I don't have a scum read on either Jamiet or Flum. Like I've said, I had a pretty bad day at work.

About Kgray vote, I didn't said it's based on last game but that it might have influenced his decision between Jamiet and Flum. Nobody is so detached from past interactions.

But you were still willing to give kgray a pass based on the possibility that last game may have influenced her choice. Number one that seems unlikely from what I have seen from kgray, and number two it is kinda suspect that you were so willing to explain away her vote while finding myself suspect for being the next one to vote after her. I mean I was also watching the result of last game pretty closely. Maybe it also influence my decision since I was also town that lost as a result of flums actions?

[ghug]

It's all I've got at the moment. Not particularly scumreading anyone tbh.

First damo vote I've liked but I also hate it

Why is this, @ghug?

Should say "post". The reaction feels town-damo style shitty.

[seth24c]

I'm sad he didn't post reads.

Hate this post

So, ##vote Teacon with me.

Or Seth.

So why did you say you would move to Jamie yesterday but still seem to have teacon as your top suspect?

[seth24c]

Out of the three I have only played with flum before so i’ve found that in general I watch those I haven’t played before more closely to try to understand how they play. Jamie, flum and teacon were all wagons more or less throughout the day so I had been watching to see how that progressed.

Where did you contribute your thoughts to the ongoing discussion about these three that you watched throughout the day?

Jamie and teacon has both caught my eye with their play styles and I had initially been pretty suspicious of Jamie but the way the eod played out I thought made Jamie lean more town to than flum did.

Where did you indicate your initial suspicion of Jamie?

Teacon’s early posts didn’t sit particularly well with me but I didn’t feel as strongly about him as I did flum. I also felt that flum vs Jamie gave more information at the end of day, if I had it to do over I may have voted teacon first then switched later to get more information.

How would voting teacon first and switching later have generated more information?

If your hypothetical do-it-over plan was to move to teacon and then to Flum, you must have intended to vote for Flum for some time. Why did you wait until after a deciding vote had been cast?

I honestly don’t know if I posted any thoughts about them or not. Two of them I hadn’t played with before and particularly with Jamie most of the thoughts were meta based so I didn’t see any reason to discuss them since others had more experience with his meta than I do. Teacon was getting plenty of questions from his early posts so I was also content to watch that develop vs piling on.

My do over hypothetical is based on the hindsight that we did get a runaway wagon. Giving a viable third wagon would have presumably given more information. The thought wasn’t a lot deeper than that but with the knowledge I had at eod flum still seemed a better option than Jamie to me at that point so I was just saying if I was going to end up on flum it would have been better to have made teacon another option as well.

[seth24c]

It depends on how much he really thinks my feelings about last game affected my vote. If he thinks it was the main reason and doesn't take issue with that, then yes.

I'm slightly more concerned that he's giving bo town points for trying to shake things up and complaining about a runaway wagon when he was online 16 minutes before EOD and kept his vote on teacon, who rivera even admits wasn't going to be the kill, even after saying he'd join Jamie - who was a bigger wagon and (from my perspective) seemed much more likely to be the daykill.

I agree completely, that struck me at the time and was one of the things that pushed me away from the Jamie wagon. Rdr can you explain?

So many things that strike you at the time, but you never post them at the time.

If this is so memorable for you, don't you think this would be something useful to ask in the moment as opposed to saying nothing until someone else brings it up?

I’m pretty sure I did mention it at the time? Let me see if I did.

[seth24c]

I agree completely, that struck me at the time and was one of the things that pushed me away from the Jamie wagon. Rdr can you explain?

So many things that strike you at the time, but you never post them at the time.

If this is so memorable for you, don't you think this would be something useful to ask in the moment as opposed to saying nothing until someone else brings it up?

I’m pretty sure I did mention it at the time? Let me see if I did.

Yeah so it was in my vote but I didn’t call out rdr by name as one of those who did it.

##vote flum

On balance I think he could have got caught with a malicious massclaim idea and is leaving it to his team to defend him. It also looks like several people have been talking about jamie without jumping on his wagon which makes me nervous about his wagon.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Teacon:

Why didn't you mention Damo, at all, until he had a banana?

Didn't mention him before because he's not playing in a way that makes him memorable. he did say he was going to be "on a mini break," but it's effectively making him a lowposter right now.

He said "enjoying banana." The banana means the fruit vendor visited him.

I want to know what people thought about that. It's more interesting to me than large quote blocks about whether or not ghug/kgray/jamiet can read and understand each other's posts.

idk why a town FV would visit anyone at all. for the lols?

I guess a scum FV would visit iff they weren't doing other actions (FV is cheap, but a minor liability for scum). I asked rivera in particular because he thinks scum would have chosen the FV.

The purpose of a scum Fruit Vendor is to distract / confuse Trackers and Watchers. So if you get Fruit, it's a good idea to declare it, as Damo did.