M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[kgray]

My gut is just telling me to be scared of you and you've literally got no pressure and I don't know why and I just don't like it

Do you think I should have gotten pressure though? If you don't have any reason to scumread me, why would anybody else?

The point is that you're so good at replicating a town game as scum that no one can find a reason to scum read you. I know that's not a good reason, but I'm not gonna not entertain that this could be a thing.

Yeah I'm not asking you to not entertain it. I'm a little skeptical of people implying I could be scum just because I was good at it in other games, but some amount of paranoia is probably town indicative.

Who's your top townread and your top scumread?

[seth24c]

That's still pretty markedly different from Chaqa & Bunny. Isn't your whole point suggesting that people who were widely townread aren't dying? Wouldn't Tom have fitted much more closely into the group with myself, kgray, ghug, and Flum that you were calling attention to in the first place?

Tom switched from maniac to summit at a critical time and probably should have been included with that group you are right but I was mainly thinking of the ones who were still alive. In my opinion the fact that he was given a gun and put himself out there as the one who used it made him an obvious target for the night kill, similar to an outed pr. You disagree with that?

I think there's a very obvious reason why Tom would make a good NK, but that wasn't my point. My point is that you were implying it was suspicious that none of the townread summit-voters had died, but ignoring the fact that a player widely townread for voting summit *had* been NK'd.

Like I said, yes Tom was on summit, but he had Other reasons he was killed that were unrelated to that wagon. The bulk of summit voters are still being townread and yet still haven’t been the kill. I think once Tom used the gun it was clear he was town so he was killed at that point. He wasn’t killed only because he was townread after voting summit. Tom was also the 9th person on summit. 7 are left, flash is the only other one who is dead. That seems to make what I’m saying pretty clear, good job misdirecting the conversation thought.

[Hellenic Riot]

Tom switched from maniac to summit at a critical time and probably should have been included with that group you are right but I was mainly thinking of the ones who were still alive. In my opinion the fact that he was given a gun and put himself out there as the one who used it made him an obvious target for the night kill, similar to an outed pr. You disagree with that?

I think there's a very obvious reason why Tom would make a good NK, but that wasn't my point. My point is that you were implying it was suspicious that none of the townread summit-voters had died, but ignoring the fact that a player widely townread for voting summit *had* been NK'd.

Like I said, yes Tom was on summit, but he had Other reasons he was killed that were unrelated to that wagon. The bulk of summit voters are still being townread and yet still haven’t been the kill. I think once Tom used the gun it was clear he was town so he was killed at that point. He wasn’t killed only because he was townread after voting summit. Tom was also the 9th person on summit. 7 are left, flash is the only other one who is dead. That seems to make what I’m saying pretty clear, good job misdirecting the conversation thought.

What part of using the gun made Tom clearly town?

[seth24c]

They did NK Tom after the PRs, so N5 was the first night they would have made that decision, or possibly N1 with rdrivera as well. I think there are a few possibilities. If Fluminator and/or ghug were bussing summit, they could be keeping the others around for cover. Or, I could be wrong about other summit bussers, and they are keeping the others around for cover. It could be just that they thought worcej was a PR. Or maybe they anticipated your question would be asked and are tying to encourage DKs in the summit voters.

I think at least part of why worcej was the NK was that they knew he was not jailed. Fluminator, Durga, and emc (Moscow) were the summit voters who posted N5, do you think any of them could be scum?

But they didn’t know that they would hit prs the first night (rdr) at least and still killed off wagon. Tom, chaqa, and bunny make sense as they were clears or near clear but both worcej and RDR being off the summit wagon paints a pretty strong picture in my opinion.

Why are you assuming they hadn't figured out rdr's role?

He wasn’t an outed PR. You think they knew his role?

[Hellenic Riot]

Not to mention that Tom was the decisive vote that put Summit ahead of Maniac. "Just the ninth vote" rather underplays that.

[seth24c]

I'm sure you're not asking me but someone did call me "insidious" after M1015

If you’re scum here I’ll be saying the same thing.

Do you strongly townread me? You said I was being opportunistic and scum-motivated on D5, and you've been saying you're suspicious of a group of widely townread summit voters that includes me. So why would my play be insidious to you if you are town and I were scum?

Because of what you mentioned in your post. You are widely townread and your posts today have seemed very town motivated to me. If you are scum it is an impressive game.

[seth24c]

Not to mention that Tom was the decisive vote that put Summit ahead of Maniac. "Just the ninth vote" rather underplays that.

I never said “just” the ninth vote. You looking for a reason to find a hole in what I am saying? I said he was the 9th vote as a means to say that there were 8 other players on a scum wagon and mafia hasn’t flipped a single one.

[ghug]

But they didn’t know that they would hit prs the first night (rdr) at least and still killed off wagon. Tom, chaqa, and bunny make sense as they were clears or near clear but both worcej and RDR being off the summit wagon paints a pretty strong picture in my opinion.

Why are you assuming they hadn't figured out rdr's role?

He wasn’t an outed PR. You think they knew his role?

He didn't do much to get townread D1, he flipped PR, and I imagine they knew the doctor and jailer were accounted for, so I imagine they killed him because they had reason to suspect he was a PR.

[Hellenic Riot]

Not to mention that Tom was the decisive vote that put Summit ahead of Maniac. "Just the ninth vote" rather underplays that.

I never said “just” the ninth vote. You looking for a reason to find a hole in what I am saying? I said he was the 9th vote as a means to say that there were 8 other players on a scum wagon and mafia hasn’t flipped a single one.

What part of Tom using the gun made him clearly town?

[seth24c]

I wanted to look closely at D1 voting. It’s the only time we’ve snared scum so hopefully will yield the most information. Obviously I’m aware you guys don’t know my alignment for sure so some of this you’ll have to take on trust now and will then become more compelling to you all if I die. I don’t think I’m a good NK because I was the counter wagon on D1.
So with 2hrs 30mins to go on D1 Scum Summit votes for town Bunny. Making it:

Summit 7, Damo 4, Chaqa 2, Maniac 2
Note at this point Summit choose not to vote for a counter wagon 2hrs 30mins from EOD. Was that so he could see who got closest to him and then jump on them later? Maybe he wanted some support from his scum buddies to start a fresh wagon idk.
Anywho, the next three votes from pure of heart TrPrado, Chaqa and Worcej bring the voting to
Summit 7, Damo 6, Chaqa 2, Maniac 2
With 2hrs to go Flum then moves off scum Summit and onto unknown Nannook. This ties the lead trains 6 v 6.
So this is the first suspect vote. Lets look at Flum.
Pg 3 – “I just realized I'm still invisible from when I was scum”
This is interesting. Was this a signal to Summit to take off his invisibility cloak?
Pg 9 – “##Vote Summit
His thing is set to invisible. Only scum do that.
Source: I did that as scum”
Pg 9 – “Ghug, Moscow join me.
First real wagon. If you join now we can be the town bloc going forward.”
Now this could be real bussing. Not only voting for summit but pushing others to join him. I think if Flum flips scum then Moscow/EMC & Ghug get a little town credit here.
Pg 39 – “I'll humour Vecna's desire for Summit to be free of pressure for now.

##Vote Damo”
This is interesting as Scum Flum could be setting up vecna to blame if town Damo got killed instead of scum Summit.
Pg 58 – “Summit/Damo/and even Chaqa are all acceptable wagons.
I'd prefer Summit quite a bit more than Damo or Chaqa right now though.”
Pg 58 – “Nanook would be a better counterwagon than Damo and Chaqa probably” [He doesn’t give any reason either here or elsewhere]
Pg 60 – “Damo and Chaqa have been acting pretty townie under pressure.”
Pg 60 – “##Vote Nanook” [Coming off Summit]
So Flum was saying Summit, Damo and Chaqa were all good kills, but he preferred Summit. Then said Nanook might make a better counter wagon than Damo/Chaqa, so came off his main read Summit to vote Nanook even though he was well behind an ‘acceptable’ kill Damo.
So in a scenario where Summit/Flum/Nanook are all scum, Flums actions make perfect sense. He has given a reason to vote for scum Summit but sees him likely to die. He moves to scum Nanook without giving any reasons because it reduces summit vote count by 1 and Nanook isn’t really under pressure. Flum know that final wagons are likely to be scum summit v either damo/chaqa/maniac at this point. Being off a main wagon gives him flexibility to make a late switch to either bus or save Summit.
As it happens within 30mins of voting Nanook Summit regains the lead easily. With summit on 7, Nan 4, Damo 3 and Chaqa 2 Flum realises that this could be scum v scum and bussing the most scummy makes better sense as they are likely to die soon anyway. He switches from Nanook to Summit
Once this bus decision is made he commits to it by trying to help drive the wafon. For instance by calling ghug across.
So TL;DR
Flum is scum. After he flips we should look much closer at Nanook who I also think could be scum
##vote Flum

Maniac I like this and it levels with what I thought about flum as well. Why are you just now presenting this case?

All my scum buddies are wagons today so I wanted to get a towny wagon going. Hope above Seth. It’s half price Friday.

That’s just how it goes I guess lol

[Durga]

Do you think I should have gotten pressure though? If you don't have any reason to scumread me, why would anybody else?

The point is that you're so good at replicating a town game as scum that no one can find a reason to scum read you. I know that's not a good reason, but I'm not gonna not entertain that this could be a thing.

Yeah I'm not asking you to not entertain it. I'm a little skeptical of people implying I could be scum just because I was good at it in other games, but some amount of paranoia is probably town indicative.

Who's your top townread and your top scumread?

Frankly, I don't have a top for either. I felt like HR, Seth, and Donny were all pretty townie. I don't like how HR has been tunnelling, but I think I'm just being paranoid, I don't know. I'm not gonna vote for those three today at least.

I think you're a straight null for me at this point. But a wagon on you would be kinda fun, I'd like to see that actually. Have you ever even been voted ever?

I thought bozo was townie but less so now because he won't stfu about Seth and its dumb. Scum is probably between bozo, nook, ghug, flum, Maniac, emc and maaaaybe you. But frankly I haven't done much thinking on how it'd all work together. And I'm going back and forth on flum and maniac. I don't think they're both scum together at least.

Anyway those are my current thoughts.

[Hellenic Riot]

You never did tell me who I've actually been tunnelling

[seth24c]

Why are you assuming they hadn't figured out rdr's role?

He wasn’t an outed PR. You think they knew his role?

He didn't do much to get townread D1, he flipped PR, and I imagine they knew the doctor and jailer were accounted for, so I imagine they killed him because they had reason to suspect he was a PR.

I’m not following sorry.

[Durga]

You never did tell me who I've actually been tunnelling

Vecna, Moscow

[ghug]

He wasn’t an outed PR. You think they knew his role?

He didn't do much to get townread D1, he flipped PR, and I imagine they knew the doctor and jailer were accounted for, so I imagine they killed him because they had reason to suspect he was a PR.

I’m not following sorry.

Which part?

[Durga]

I was like pretty certain you were town d1 tho so I'm gonna just stick to that gut reading

[Hellenic Riot]

You never did tell me who I've actually been tunnelling

Vecna, Moscow

I questioned many other people (and voted a few of them) while scumreading Vecna, and it was only at the end when he wouldn't shut up about my online status that I locked into him.

I don't see how I've tunnelled Moscowmc in the slightest

[Hellenic Riot]

He wasn’t an outed PR. You think they knew his role?

He didn't do much to get townread D1, he flipped PR, and I imagine they knew the doctor and jailer were accounted for, so I imagine they killed him because they had reason to suspect he was a PR.

I’m not following sorry.

You'd be able to follow if you answered what part of Tom using the gun made him clearly town

[seth24c]

Not to mention that Tom was the decisive vote that put Summit ahead of Maniac. "Just the ninth vote" rather underplays that.

I never said “just” the ninth vote. You looking for a reason to find a hole in what I am saying? I said he was the 9th vote as a means to say that there were 8 other players on a scum wagon and mafia hasn’t flipped a single one.

What part of Tom using the gun made him clearly town?

Scum wouldn’t be announcing that they have a gun and giving town the vca chance of them choosing to shoot the top wagon. Too much attention so that made him pretty clearly town.

[Hellenic Riot]

I never said “just” the ninth vote. You looking for a reason to find a hole in what I am saying? I said he was the 9th vote as a means to say that there were 8 other players on a scum wagon and mafia hasn’t flipped a single one.

What part of Tom using the gun made him clearly town?

Scum wouldn’t be announcing that they have a gun and giving town the vca chance of them choosing to shoot the top wagon. Too much attention so that made him pretty clearly town.

Why wouldn't they? Scum holstering the gun while the person who gave it to them was alive is basically yelling to the Item Giver that they're scum