M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[Nanook]

(Kgray existing putting two back into the POE is cause I thought we were at ten and had to hit today or lose, ftr. Not sure if that was clear.)

How does 3p mess with endgame numbers? Are they considered town in terms of mafia needing to have the majority? And with items/jailer, it's not a normal mylo/kilo is it?

Freelancer we’ve already lost, riddler is...hard to account for tbh, could potentially fuck us but doesn’t necessarily. Just means nobody should be claiming.

[Donny Dude]

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Is there something in Maniac compared to emc/moscow that is more likely to be scum?

[ghug]

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Why were you so content to vote Moscow yesterday?

[kgray]

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Is there something in Maniac compared to emc/moscow that is more likely to be scum?

I think I've made it pretty clear why I think Maniac is scum, you can find it if you search his name in my ISO.

[kgray]

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Why were you so content to vote Moscow yesterday?

Because I agreed that it seemed like he could have been scum coasting after being townread on D1, and because people I think are town were also suspicious of him. Then I reread him during the night and remembered why I'd townread him earlier.

[kgray]

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Why were you so content to vote Moscow yesterday?

Why were you?

[ghug]

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

Why were you so content to vote Moscow yesterday?

Why were you?

Because heavy lurking has been his scum meta in the past, and HR's point about his forgotten seth read was compelling.

I agree with you that the lurking is less necessarily problematic given the subbing, though I'm not willing to completely erase it, but EoD yesterday reeked of protection, and I'm hesitant to fall back on D1 townreads at all at this point given how many people from Summit's wagon are left and how we've been utterly unable to catch scum since.

[ghug]

I also think it's very likely that the Moscow wagon had at most one scum on it yesterday and was potentially scum-free, which makes the flash wagon bad news.

[kgray]

Why were you so content to vote Moscow yesterday?

Why were you?

Because heavy lurking has been his scum meta in the past, and HR's point about his forgotten seth read was compelling.

I agree with you that the lurking is less necessarily problematic given the subbing, though I'm not willing to completely erase it, but EoD yesterday reeked of protection, and I'm hesitant to fall back on D1 townreads at all at this point given how many people from Summit's wagon are left and how we've been utterly unable to catch scum since.

It's not just a general D1 townread, but the EOD in particular. Do you really think Moscow's reaction to summit's claim and Chaqa's cc comes from scum?

If you think bozo and/or Maniac was protecting Moscow, join me on Maniac.

[ghug]

Why were you?

Because heavy lurking has been his scum meta in the past, and HR's point about his forgotten seth read was compelling.

I agree with you that the lurking is less necessarily problematic given the subbing, though I'm not willing to completely erase it, but EoD yesterday reeked of protection, and I'm hesitant to fall back on D1 townreads at all at this point given how many people from Summit's wagon are left and how we've been utterly unable to catch scum since.

It's not just a general D1 townread, but the EOD in particular. Do you really think Moscow's reaction to summit's claim and Chaqa's cc comes from scum?

If you think bozo and/or Maniac was protecting Moscow, join me on Maniac.

I see where you're coming from, but he did also encourage a CC, and he's been bold in the past.

We've gotta be nearly 100% right from this point on, emc's not going to do anything to help us read him, and I'm not convinced that both bozo and Maniac are scum if emoscow is, so emoscow remains my preference.

I'll join you on Maniac if the wagon dies or gets big enough that it doesn't need me.

[Hellenic Riot]

What about someone like me who was perfectly content with a flash kill but ended up on the other wagon?

Well given I think emcfleet is scum, I'm not hugely suspicious of that.

##vote EMC

So you're actually just salty we didn't consider your wagon seriously and are therefore sus? Like, you talk about not bothering to reconsider but it feels like all you've done this game is essentially pick a target and tunnel on them until they're dead and move on to the next.

That seems like one hell of a reach. Who have I actually tunnelled this game, aside from Bunny? I most certainly did not tunnel Vecna - I openly wanted other people, and only voted him when he would do nothing other than spout insane conspiracy theories regarding my online status. I also signalled my openness to voting Seth yesterday, have scumread Bozo for quite a long time, and only stayed on Moscow because people joined me on him toward EoD.

My biggest issue with the Flash wagon is that I fundamentally do not understand how people could have had Flash as their top scumread - I have no problem whatsoever with people thinking it plausible he was scum, but to be so certain that they voted him and had no better options, despite how little he'd done? That stinks. The case on Flash essentially boiled down to him coasting after bussing Summit D1 - Something which applied just as strongly to Moscow, if not even more so.

[kgray]

I also think it's very likely that the Moscow wagon had at most one scum on it yesterday and was potentially scum-free, which makes the flash wagon bad news.

So you think it's likely that the 4 remaining scum are in Flum/Nanook/Donny/Durga/bozo/emc?

But you townread Donny and Durga, and you don't particularly want to kill Nanook and Flum?

[Hellenic Riot]

Like if we want to talk about tunnelling - Flum & Donny both voted Flash for the equivalent of three straight phases when you factor in the gunshot without ever voting for anyone else whatsoever in that time

[kgray]

Because heavy lurking has been his scum meta in the past, and HR's point about his forgotten seth read was compelling.

I agree with you that the lurking is less necessarily problematic given the subbing, though I'm not willing to completely erase it, but EoD yesterday reeked of protection, and I'm hesitant to fall back on D1 townreads at all at this point given how many people from Summit's wagon are left and how we've been utterly unable to catch scum since.

It's not just a general D1 townread, but the EOD in particular. Do you really think Moscow's reaction to summit's claim and Chaqa's cc comes from scum?

If you think bozo and/or Maniac was protecting Moscow, join me on Maniac.

I see where you're coming from, but he did also encourage a CC, and he's been bold in the past.

We've gotta be nearly 100% right from this point on, emc's not going to do anything to help us read him, and I'm not convinced that both bozo and Maniac are scum if emoscow is, so emoscow remains my preference.

I'll join you on Maniac if the wagon dies or gets big enough that it doesn't need me.

But how are bozo's and Maniac's last-minute votes for flash enough to make emc/moscow your top scumread? If you think they're scum then I can see why you'd scumread emc/moscow. But if you're unsure about them then I don't see how that makes emc/moscow your top suspect based on their votes.

[Hellenic Riot]

And frankly, if you look at Flum's voting history now that we know both Damo & Flash are town it's outright atrocious

[kgray]

The case on Flash essentially boiled down to him coasting after bussing Summit D1 - Something which applied just as strongly to Moscow, if not even more so.

Is this still your main argument for scum!emc/moscow? That he was coasting after D1, even though he needed a sub which makes it seem a lot less likely that his absence was scum motivated?

[Hellenic Riot]

The case on Flash essentially boiled down to him coasting after bussing Summit D1 - Something which applied just as strongly to Moscow, if not even more so.

Is this still your main argument for scum!emc/moscow? That he was coasting after D1, even though he needed a sub which makes it seem a lot less likely that his absence was scum motivated?

Given he openly admitted he was coasting, I don't really buy that. But no, my main argument throughout is the way he forgot he was scumreading Seth for the entire period that the gun was in play and that conveniently remembered after the shot had gone.

[Hellenic Riot]

Moscow tunnelled Seth for two days straight, was absolutely certain he was scum, and then as soon as there was a gun in play he didn't mention Seth once - Then afterward he goes straight back to tunnelling Seth, only stopping to jump off Seth onto the Vecna wagon when it looked like Seth might actually be in play as an EoD wagon D4.

I can absolutely believe that he was bussing Seth but didn't want him to actually die if he could avoid it and if it wouldn't get him enough credit if Seth did flip.

[ghug]

Well given I think emcfleet is scum, I'm not hugely suspicious of that.

##vote EMC

So you're actually just salty we didn't consider your wagon seriously and are therefore sus? Like, you talk about not bothering to reconsider but it feels like all you've done this game is essentially pick a target and tunnel on them until they're dead and move on to the next.

That seems like one hell of a reach. Who have I actually tunnelled this game, aside from Bunny? I most certainly did not tunnel Vecna - I openly wanted other people, and only voted him when he would do nothing other than spout insane conspiracy theories regarding my online status. I also signalled my openness to voting Seth yesterday, have scumread Bozo for quite a long time, and only stayed on Moscow because people joined me on him toward EoD.

My biggest issue with the Flash wagon is that I fundamentally do not understand how people could have had Flash as their top scumread - I have no problem whatsoever with people thinking it plausible he was scum, but to be so certain that they voted him and had no better options, despite how little he'd done? That stinks. The case on Flash essentially boiled down to him coasting after bussing Summit D1 - Something which applied just as strongly to Moscow, if not even more so.

Wait, I don't remember the online status thing being what pushed you into voting for Vecna. It also seems a little disingenuous to make it out like you weren't a major pusher of the Vecna daykill.

[Hellenic Riot]

So you're actually just salty we didn't consider your wagon seriously and are therefore sus? Like, you talk about not bothering to reconsider but it feels like all you've done this game is essentially pick a target and tunnel on them until they're dead and move on to the next.

That seems like one hell of a reach. Who have I actually tunnelled this game, aside from Bunny? I most certainly did not tunnel Vecna - I openly wanted other people, and only voted him when he would do nothing other than spout insane conspiracy theories regarding my online status. I also signalled my openness to voting Seth yesterday, have scumread Bozo for quite a long time, and only stayed on Moscow because people joined me on him toward EoD.

My biggest issue with the Flash wagon is that I fundamentally do not understand how people could have had Flash as their top scumread - I have no problem whatsoever with people thinking it plausible he was scum, but to be so certain that they voted him and had no better options, despite how little he'd done? That stinks. The case on Flash essentially boiled down to him coasting after bussing Summit D1 - Something which applied just as strongly to Moscow, if not even more so.

Wait, I don't remember the online status thing being what pushed you into voting for Vecna. It also seems a little disingenuous to make it out like you weren't a major pusher of the Vecna daykill.

I was a major pusher, but only at the very end. If you remember, I was actually voting Bozo at the time you & kgray started the Vecna wagon, and I joined it after the online status thing took over his entire mindset - and then when he continued to spout that bs and fuck all else, I started actively forcing it through. Certainly I take responsibility for his flipping, but to claim I tunnelled him is just plain wrong