M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[worcej]

I will outright say, I'm going to be a terrible sub since without looking at the bot, I'm not even sure what phase we're in.

But anyways, hello all, hello all :D

In all honesty, this game isn't too hard to be caught up on.

My TL;DR's of it:
D1 - Summit played like crap, got caught as scum, definitely was bused by team.
D2 - Bunny was suspect, claimed a PR at last second, got Prado killed by it.
D3 - Turns out Bunny was the DK-immune PR, meaning his claim was dumb on D2, so no kill.
D4 - Damo got shot by the gun TomB was given. Train on Vecna.
D5 - Flash was 'resolved' based on the D4 wagons.

NK's are sprinkled in there - town has 2 PRs in play still, one being the Jailor who is playing incredibly well so far.

[Fluminator]

Yes, it's easy to cherrypick someone's history when they have 400 posts and actively pushing things.

I notice you left out me being right on Summit and Vecna. And why are you including my bozo scumread from a couple days ago. He hasn't been flipped yet?

Being right on summit isn't hard, considering it was a potential bus, so no credit given for that.

Also - being right on a towny (Vecna), only to be subsequently wrong on the other option and push it on the next opportunity, is not good either. In fact, mentioning that as if a way to invalidate my reads is funny because it's incredibly easy for scum to call someone town... when they obviously know they are town.

In general - Your reads seem to be barely adapting over time and we're just slowly going through your list of candidates.

So am I scum for calling town people town because it's easy for scum to correctly read townies?
And I am scum for calling town people scum because I pushed for the wrong person?

This does not sound like genuine paranoia or a genuine case to me yet.
Also what happened to you wanting to vote for someone who was off the summit wagon? Since you said that you've pushed for flash and then me.

[Fluminator]

My reads are barely adapting?
I literally started started with a scumread on Vecna before changing my mind after we pressured him a bit. The fact you're using my read on Vecna as an example of not adapting is strange.

I also started townreading you after initially scumreading you, but now that flash is town and you come after me with this cherrypicked post when I might be looking like a potential miskill target, I'm beginning to think that was a mistake.

[worcej]

Yes, it's easy to cherrypick someone's history when they have 400 posts and actively pushing things.

I notice you left out me being right on Summit and Vecna. And why are you including my bozo scumread from a couple days ago. He hasn't been flipped yet?

Being right on summit isn't hard, considering it was a potential bus, so no credit given for that.

Also - being right on a towny (Vecna), only to be subsequently wrong on the other option and push it on the next opportunity, is not good either. In fact, mentioning that as if a way to invalidate my reads is funny because it's incredibly easy for scum to call someone town... when they obviously know they are town.

In general - Your reads seem to be barely adapting over time and we're just slowly going through your list of candidates.

So am I scum for calling town people town because it's easy for scum to correctly read townies?
And I am scum for calling town people scum because I pushed for the wrong person?

This does not sound like genuine paranoia or a genuine case to me yet.
Also what happened to you wanting to vote for someone who was off the summit wagon? Since you said that you've pushed for flash and then me.

No, but just because you got someone right as being town doesn't exclude you from being scum. You get no actual points (other than self pride if you want it) for being right on someone being town.

You're potentially scum by the sheer number of times you've been wrong and how you continue to push onto the next person on your list without really missing a beat or showing much hesitation in your pushes. Perhaps this is just how you are, I don't know since I've played with you only a couple times now, but generally when people are consistently wrong I can detect an impression of uncertainty, borderline hesitation, in their own reads - the big thing is I don't get this impression with you.

Beyond this, the rest of my case is based on your N1 read list (potential way to signal the scum team), your N2 'bozo is the deep threat scum' (he is a part of the highly plausible scum team), then the reinforcing that bozo is playing a scum game on N2, followed by the D3 comments that bozo buses when he is scum (which he would've done on D1 with summit) sticks out that you're the traitor and were signaling bozo+team to recruit you.

And you know what - the obvious counter I see to my argument is 'would Flum be so openly trying to signal?' and my response is it's totally in his wheel house. The last game he was scum and literally claimed he had the gun and was asking for who to shoot, in case you forgot about that.

[worcej]

It should be obvious to everyone that the traitor has to try to signal the scum team who they are.

Flum, you've done the most obvious attempt at doing this and have doubled down on the effort to do so in subtle ways. You've sprinkled in many scum reads and statements here and there about now confirmed town players that the growing list of available other options has shrunk. We're now at the point that your statements regarding bozo stick out like a sore thumb.

[Fluminator]

The fact you're still pushing people for potentially "signaling" when we have so many other things to go off is really reaching. Are you salty you wasted a recruit on me?

For the sake of my ego, I want to say I haven't been wrong THAT many times.
I was wrong on Prado, Damo (even though I didn't vote him for that deadline), and Flash. I wouldn't even count Bunny because I said a few times it didn't seem like his scumgame.
I am reconsidering my reads after the flash flip obviously. It just happened and I haven't fully had time to go over everything and get new reads yet.

[worcej]

The fact you're still pushing people for potentially "signaling" when we have so many other things to go off is really reaching. Are you salty you wasted a recruit on me?

For the sake of my ego, I want to say I haven't been wrong THAT many times.
I was wrong on Prado, Damo (even though I didn't vote him for that deadline), and Flash. I wouldn't even count Bunny because I said a few times it didn't seem like his scumgame.
I am reconsidering my reads after the flash flip obviously. It just happened and I haven't fully had time to go over everything and get new reads yet.

Name the other things to go off of for me.

If there are so many, this shouldn't be hard right?

[Fluminator]

Meta/NKA/VCA on the all the previous wagons to start.

[Fluminator]

So if you think I was signalling bozo, do you think he's scum now? You were townreading him recently.

[Fluminator]

Also, I have thought a lot about the traitor role since I was looking for one last game.

If I was traitor I probably would have signalled a fake team, and get myself miskilled lol.

[Fluminator]

Also, I have thought a lot about the traitor role since I was looking for one last game.

If I was traitor I probably would have signalled a fake team, and get myself correctly killed lol.

[worcej]

Meta/NKA/VCA on the all the previous wagons to start.

Not much substance here, this was more deflection than anything.

VCA is rather poor overall due to the nature of the days, but it does support scumming bozo (as I noted in my bozo read) and makes the case against him stronger. M1013 is a recent example of how bozo is susceptible to VCA.

Also, something that sticks out for me (that is also META) - Bozo has yet to try to push for a claim or anything this game. Regardless of how much they hurt town, he usually always pushes for claims in some way to get more information as town.

[worcej]

So if you think I was signalling bozo, do you think he's scum now? You were townreading him recently.

I have shifted my read to him as potential scum based off these past couple day phases, yes.

This is noted in my list I put out earlier this phase.

[worcej]

Also, I have thought a lot about the traitor role since I was looking for one last game.

If I was traitor I probably would have signalled a fake team, and get myself miskilled lol.

This doesn't make sense. Even with your correction of miskill to correct, I still don't get it.

Based off my understanding and reading of the roles, the scum team votes to recruit someone once/night which is separate from the NK action. Thus, the traitor would want to be signaling that they know who all the scum team are together.

[Fluminator]

Maybe you're still town.
But your case is still garbage lol.

[Fluminator]

Looking through your iso you apparently were scumreading me before you voted me so it looks a little less opportunistic. And you probably would have corrected me if you were scum to get a cheap victory.

[worcej]

Maybe you're still town.
But your case is still garbage lol.

TBH, my cases are typically exactly that.

Between you and bozo, I am more confident in bozo being scum and my read of you is able to be confirmed based on his result.

[Fluminator]

Careful. Ghug scumread me for lining up daykills like that

[Fluminator]

@HR (or anyone familiar with Donny), you mentioned somewhere you played with scum Donny Dude before. Was his game here noticeably different? I wasn't really able to tell a difference skimming through his games on mafiascum.

[Fluminator]

@EMC
What's your plan on how to participate in this game?