M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

Actually, I don't understand why bozo is not voting for me. Bozo allegedly convinced Nanook that I am scum...but bozo is voting for seth. Weird.

That is what I was expecting Fluminator to say.

Nanook said he did not think it was likely scum would do what you did D1 as scum, and I pointed out that you have done it before as scum.

If you have been reading the game, I think you would know why I am voting for seth even though I also think there is a reasonable chance you are scum.

I guess I was just looking at your most recent posts.

So in summary you think the scum team is Seth and me so far. Who do you think may be the other two?

I think you and seth are possible, it would explain why seth waited until the last minute to vote on a wagon D4. I also think Donny could have been trying to protect summit D1, and I think Fluminator and ghug are possible summit bussers who at times tried to encourage other wagons D1. You, Fluminator, and ghug avoided seth at D2 EOD. Fluminator and/or ghug could have decided to bus you because you have been so inactive.

However, independent of interactions, seth and Donny are still my top scum reads.

[Nanook]

Then what is your take on summit then?
Is he also in the same category as flash if the two were swapped for d1 wagons?

Summit’s already flipped mafia so I don’t follow this question?

Yes, true. I was trying to determine if flash and summit were slots you read the same or differently based on different game states.
If someone had asked you at end of day one about summit, What would you have said?
I know that d2 you said you did not have a read on summit.

I probably would’ve said I didn’t have much of a read on him, idk that was a long time ago. Maybe I said something at the time but I don’t remember and I’m too lazy to look lol

[kgray]

Do you think summit claimed D1 to a reveal a PR knowing a scum was going to be the DK, or do you think Maniac is the traitor?

I think that even before Chaqa cc'd summit it was likely that nobody would believe his claim and summit would still be the kill. I don't think summit thought it would save himself (especially if he was counting on the cc), and I think he just wanted to expose a PR on his way out, so I see a world where he didn't think scum!Maniac was in danger of dying and still claimed.

But I suppose Maniac being the traitor does make more sense than non-traitor scum because it still would have been risky for summit to try that fake claim if he knew his counter wagon was his teammate, and I don't think summit wanted to endanger his team....

So I don't know.

It is not typical for a PR to CC immediately like that, I think summit probably thought there was a chance he could avoid the D1 DK by claiming, and force a PR to CC to get him DKed D2. If he knew Maniac was scum, this would result in 2 scum DKs.

Yeah. While I still think summit didn't really care about surviving and was just trying to help his team by outing a PR, I also think it's unlikely he would have put Maniac in danger like that if he knew he was his teammate.

[kgray]

Actually, I don't understand why bozo is not voting for me. Bozo allegedly convinced Nanook that I am scum...but bozo is voting for seth. Weird.

That is what I was expecting Fluminator to say.

Nanook said he did not think it was likely scum would do what you did D1 as scum, and I pointed out that you have done it before as scum.

If you have been reading the game, I think you would know why I am voting for seth even though I also think there is a reasonable chance you are scum.

I guess I was just looking at your most recent posts.

So in summary you think the scum team is Seth and me so far. Who do you think may be the other two?

I don't understand how flash can be so concerned with putting a team together and finding out who other people think the whole scumteam is when he can't even give reasons for his scumreads.

Is he always this difficult?

[ghug]

Flum - I'm leaving scum at this point, provided flash is also scum. He's given the most fleshed-out reason for his read on me, but it's built mostly around a cherrypicked meta picture and a dependent read on flash. His whole EoD/beginning of night yesterday seems more designed to paint a picture than straightforward analysis, talking up all the dead people that wanted flash gone, being ready to scumread all the Vecna voters he sees as good players for being wrong too much despite his own instrumentality in damo's death, and doing all this "promise me your vote tomorrow" shit. I've never seen Flum behave like a politician.

His play reads like someone with absolute knowledge that the player he's bussing is scum who's a little bit too ready to set up the connections there, despite his initial advocacy for a flash kill being more of the "he's useless and we need to flip him" variety.

fwiw Flum did some "promise me your vote tomorrow" stuff with Balki in M54 as town, so that part doesn't really concern me.

Balki

That's helpful though. What about things like "lets solve this while the scumbuckets are pretending to be jailed" or "He even comments that he likes some of Vecna's posts not long before voting him. Did those posts mean nothing to you?" or citing the reads of townies he daykilled? Thoughts on the general argument?

[kgray]

Flum - I'm leaving scum at this point, provided flash is also scum. He's given the most fleshed-out reason for his read on me, but it's built mostly around a cherrypicked meta picture and a dependent read on flash. His whole EoD/beginning of night yesterday seems more designed to paint a picture than straightforward analysis, talking up all the dead people that wanted flash gone, being ready to scumread all the Vecna voters he sees as good players for being wrong too much despite his own instrumentality in damo's death, and doing all this "promise me your vote tomorrow" shit. I've never seen Flum behave like a politician.

His play reads like someone with absolute knowledge that the player he's bussing is scum who's a little bit too ready to set up the connections there, despite his initial advocacy for a flash kill being more of the "he's useless and we need to flip him" variety.

fwiw Flum did some "promise me your vote tomorrow" stuff with Balki in M54 as town, so that part doesn't really concern me.

Balki

That's helpful though. What about things like "lets solve this while the scumbuckets are pretending to be jailed" or "He even comments that he likes some of Vecna's posts not long before voting him. Did those posts mean nothing to you?" or citing the reads of townies he daykilled? Thoughts on the general argument?

I think your general argument is valid, yeah, but it's also possible that's partially because I'm feeling defensive about my Vecna read - and that's coming from the person who said being defensive is scummy

But I honestly saw a big shift in Vecna's behavior from what I'm used to, and I have yet to see anybody say why they were so convinced he was town or what his towntells were. So from my perspective, coming after people because they were wrong about Vecna makes no sense - because I think that I was right about him acting differently, even though I was clearly wrong about his alignment. So no case that Flum (or anyone) makes that relies on the argument that people should have known better will ever convince me.

I'm not sure if that means Flum is scummy, because maybe Flum really thought Vecna was his normal towny self, even if I couldn't see that at all. But I do agree with you that he's forming a narrative out of this, intentionally or not. It's pretty convenient that he wasn't on the Vecna wagon and he's now pushing the idea that scum would have always wanted Vecna dead over flash. I think considering the reads of dead townies is NAI, even if he voted to kill them. I think his argument about people who scumread flash being killed off would have a lot more weight if they were NK'd or if flash weren't someone who is likely to continue to be under pressure. I just don't see scum going out of their way to kill people who are suspicious of flash even if he's scum.

[flash2015]

That is what I was expecting Fluminator to say.

Nanook said he did not think it was likely scum would do what you did D1 as scum, and I pointed out that you have done it before as scum.

If you have been reading the game, I think you would know why I am voting for seth even though I also think there is a reasonable chance you are scum.

I guess I was just looking at your most recent posts.

So in summary you think the scum team is Seth and me so far. Who do you think may be the other two?

I don't understand how flash can be so concerned with putting a team together and finding out who other people think the whole scumteam is when he can't even give reasons for his scumreads.

Is he always this difficult?

Do you think it isn't useful to find out what people's scumteams are? It is useful to me.

[Durga]

Guys I am WASTED and it's Sunday

[Donny Dude]

Summit’s already flipped mafia so I don’t follow this question?

Yes, true. I was trying to determine if flash and summit were slots you read the same or differently based on different game states.
If someone had asked you at end of day one about summit, What would you have said?
I know that d2 you said you did not have a read on summit.

I probably would’ve said I didn’t have much of a read on him, idk that was a long time ago. Maybe I said something at the time but I don’t remember and I’m too lazy to look lol

k, that is true .

[Donny Dude]

Guys I am WASTED and it's Sunday

Any thoughts?

[Nanook]

Guys I am WASTED and it's Sunday

Doing it dip style I see

[Fluminator]

Durga's survivor game started tonight! Mafia should nightkill her if she's town so she can focus on that.

[Fluminator]

It's possible Vecna was different from other games but the amount of effort he put in that day and people he pushed and his always evolving reads from it and his paranoia and his emotions and frustrations at getting people to interact were all so real. I don't think any scum could ever fake that.

Ghug voting for him based off very weak meta and just being very comfortable about it triggered my scumdar. Especially when it reminded me of when he kept delaying voting scumpartner Durga in a previous game.

I'm not like ghug is 100% scum if flash is. Maybe I overstated how sure I was that night. I do almost wonder if Kgray is buddying ghug right now.

[Fluminator]

Also the thing about dead townies scum reading flash is more about how the push against flash has been largely town driven and for some reason scum aren't pushing him as much as a miskill. It could be them saving him for later. And Vecna is definitely more appealing as a miskill (but the scum players still had to historically be suspecting Vecna more than flash to vote there). But It's still one of the things that adds up.

[ghug]

It's possible Vecna was different from other games but the amount of effort he put in that day and people he pushed and his always evolving reads from it and his paranoia and his emotions and frustrations at getting people to interact were all so real. I don't think any scum could ever fake that.

Ghug voting for him based off very weak meta and just being very comfortable about it triggered my scumdar. Especially when it reminded me of when he kept delaying voting scumpartner Durga in a previous game.

I'm not like ghug is 100% scum if flash is. Maybe I overstated how sure I was that night. I do almost wonder if Kgray is buddying ghug right now.

Why her buddying me over me buddying her?

[ghug]

Also the thing about dead townies scum reading flash is more about how the push against flash has been largely town driven and for some reason scum aren't pushing him as much as a miskill. It could be them saving him for later. And Vecna is definitely more appealing as a miskill (but the scum players still had to historically be suspecting Vecna more than flash to vote there). But It's still one of the things that adds up.

That's a much better argument, but it's not what you've been saying.

Who's your number two today?

[ghug]

Hi Maniac.

Why don't you townread me anymore?

[Fluminator]

Also the thing about dead townies scum reading flash is more about how the push against flash has been largely town driven and for some reason scum aren't pushing him as much as a miskill. It could be them saving him for later. And Vecna is definitely more appealing as a miskill (but the scum players still had to historically be suspecting Vecna more than flash to vote there). But It's still one of the things that adds up.

That's a much better argument, but it's not what you've been saying.

Who's your number two today?

I did say that! At eod when I was trying to swing it to flash. Kgray said it was a good point then. You said something like "flash is actually getting pressure so it's not a good point" or something.

It's hard to pick a number 2 when a lot of my read on the game revolves around Flash's alignment.

[Nanook]

The guy with one and a half scumread says that sounds like a cop out!

[ghug]

Also the thing about dead townies scum reading flash is more about how the push against flash has been largely town driven and for some reason scum aren't pushing him as much as a miskill. It could be them saving him for later. And Vecna is definitely more appealing as a miskill (but the scum players still had to historically be suspecting Vecna more than flash to vote there). But It's still one of the things that adds up.

That's a much better argument, but it's not what you've been saying.

Who's your number two today?

I did say that! At eod when I was trying to swing it to flash. Kgray said it was a good point then. You said something like "flash is actually getting pressure so it's not a good point" or something.

It's hard to pick a number 2 when a lot of my read on the game revolves around Flash's alignment.

Hmm, true, you made them as separate arguments though, you didn't link them. Old me also had a point too. We don't know whether it's just town-driven.