M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[seth24c]

Flash always lurks. Summit doesn't HR

##vote flash

Why the vote flash if he always lurks? is that why you think he is scum?

[seth24c]

##vote Seth

Still waiting for you to solve the game. Shrug emoji

[seth24c]

nearly forgot

##voteFlum

Maniac, what happened to this Flum read?

I think it is likely 1 or 2 of the primary scum team voted for him early, and the rest switched to him at EOD if they were online. You, Fluminator, damo, and MF switched your votes off of summit at some point, I think you are all good candidates for bussing.

bozo, why haven't you pushed anyone on this list?

When did webDip mafia get so wholesome?

does kgray really not do this to summit?

Mainly because 2 of my top suspects for not bussing summit, Donny and seth, are still around. damo is gone, but ghug, Fluminator, and MF are still good candidates for summit bussers.

You like the people I point out to you as good candidates for summit bussers but still think I am scum. It's laughable that donny and I are still your top suspects for not bussing summit. Literally everyone else who was not on the wagon is dead besides nanook and maniac, who just happed to be the two scummiest players in the game.

[seth24c]

##vote MoscowFleet


So I decided to go back and read Moscow's posts in a phase by phase basis to see where his reads are coming from, and it's really not that great. D1 isn't terrible, but he votes Summit pretty baselessly early on before jumping off to make a joke vote on kgray and then heading onto the Nanook wagon - Near the end he jumps onto Summit because he has no idea why Maniac is even an option. He suspects seth might be bussing Summit at EoD but shoots down Chaqa's suggestion of a flashwagon on Seth at that point (rightly so). But from there...

N1 Moscow does make a few posts, primarily to give townreads on Donny & Bozo.

D2 Moscow is now dead certain Seth is scum who bussed - Natural progression from the day before. Continues to reinforce his townread on Donny, and to push Seth again near the EoD.

N2 Silence

D3 Can't believe Prado was eliminated over Seth, questions Bunny, and promises not to coast anymore. Not too bad either.

N3 Silence

D4 However, this is where things get odd. He seems to completely forget his previous dead-certain scumread on Seth, there's nothing about it whatsoever. Instead he comes in with a case on Damo being scum which in turn makes Nanook a likely a partner, and reinforces Maniac being town. He's also the person who makes the most notable attempt to stop Flash being shot aside from myself (Hi!), and continues to push a Damo/Nanook team, and to further chainsaw Maniac being town.

Moscow is then around for the shot, to which he has no reaction whatsoever. He enjoys Tom's reaction test on seth, and yet it's only after Bozo suggests that seth is scum several hours later that Moscow suddenly rediscovers that scumread on Seth and votes him again - At which point he says that there's no point reading into his reaction to Tom, despite calling it a great move from Tom at the time. If there's no point reading into the reaction, why was it a great move in the first place?

He then joins the Vecna wagon, having suggested Vecna was not obv town N2 as the sum total of his previous thoughts on Vecna's alignment. Once again defends Flash, and also doubles down on a townread on Tom in a response to Donny.


So Moscow - What happened to your scumread on Seth between Bunny's hammer and Damo's death? Why did it disappear off the face of the earth, only to return after Damo died? And why did Seth being scum only make sense again a long time after the shot that you were present for, after someone else (Bozo) had restarted the wagon there? And what was so great about Tom's reaction test if we shouldn't be reading into the reactions?

Agree, Moscow is likely to be scum as well. Wanted to set me up as the next mis-kill after bunny before I had a chance to come in and catch back up. Then is presented the opportunity to follow bozo (who is probably town) so he can put the blame on him for my flip.

[seth24c]

FWIW, bozo is great at case building and solving, but he isn't impervious to being wrong.

I feel like he did continue to ignore holes in his case against me and vecna.

What "holes" do you think I ignored?

You refused to listen to either myself or vecna when we explained the reasons we had done things and when you misinterpreted situations or intent. I don't have time to go back through to explain again. Tunnel me if you want, I'm going to try to find scum.

[Donny Dude]

I feel like he did continue to ignore holes in his case against me and vecna.

What "holes" do you think I ignored?

You refused to listen to either myself or vecna when we explained the reasons we had done things and when you misinterpreted situations or intent. I don't have time to go back through to explain again. Tunnel me if you want, I'm going to try to find scum.

I like this post.

[seth24c]

##vote Maniac

His thought progression this game makes ZERO sense, especially when you look at it in context of his D4 voting.

Here are his Vecna reads:

D2 Maniac townread Vecna for the timing of his summit vote and said it would take convincing for him to vote for Vecna. His "scumread" of Vecna came on D4 from what he apparently thought was a scumslip by Vecna in this exchange:

If I believed in scum slips, this would be a good one

I believe in scumslips ##vote Vecna

although Maniac never explained why he thought Vecna scumslipped. He then voted for damo before Tom's gunshot EOD but said he'd switch to Vecna if that became a thing - again, with the only explanation of him changing from townreading Vecna to voting him being a "scumslip" that didn't happen.

He later includes Vecna in a list of people with sketchy D1 voting and a claim that Vecna wasn't bussing, even though he'd already townread Vecna *because* of his D1 voting. Just compare this post with this post.

Now, let's look at Maniac's read of flash:

In his EoD1 readslist, all he says about flash is that there's "not enough info." D2 he votes flash "for reasons." Begining of D4 he votes flash here because he thinks flash might be scum, and ends up back on flash's wagon with 14 minutes left.

BUT: At 6 minutes left, he changes from flash to Vecna, which puts Vecna in the lead, and then he rallies (or tries to rally) people to get on Vecna last-minute. There's literally no explanation of why he thought Vecna was scum OR why he thought flash is town.

Oh, and as soon as Vecna flips town he's suddenly okay with voting flash again.

Yeah maniac definitely feels like scum.

[Fluminator]

Flash always lurks. Summit doesn't HR

##vote flash

Why the vote flash if he always lurks? is that why you think he is scum?

Again and again
I need to repeat myself
It's much more than that

[seth24c]

What "holes" do you think I ignored?

You refused to listen to either myself or vecna when we explained the reasons we had done things and when you misinterpreted situations or intent. I don't have time to go back through to explain again. Tunnel me if you want, I'm going to try to find scum.

I like this post.

Donny what are your reads? Do you have any strong suspicions?

[Maniac]

##vote Ghuggles

@kgrey - you case against me is well thought out and argued. It even had me doubting if I was scum, but I checked and I’m not. On phone atm but will reply in more detail later when I reply to others’ questions.

[seth24c]

Flash always lurks. Summit doesn't HR

##vote flash

Why the vote flash if he always lurks? is that why you think he is scum?

Again and again
I need to repeat myself
It's much more than that

Sorry may have missed it in all the chaos. Do you feel he is the best target for today?

[Fluminator]

Why the vote flash if he always lurks? is that why you think he is scum?

Again and again
I need to repeat myself
It's much more than that

Sorry may have missed it in all the chaos. Do you feel he is the best target for today?

For sure totally
Counterwagon to two town
Much info to get

[seth24c]

In my opinion flash is not the best flip today. He may or may not be scum but I think we have several partners/groups that are very likely to be scum together and I would prefer to flip one of those options. Maniac in particular is extremely scummy and would give us loads of information. He never deserved to be let off the hook for being the alternate wagon to summit imo. Ghug and moscow are two other ones who I currently have above flash on my preference list.

[ghug]

Ghuggles you are good
Burdened with proficiency
You have failed the test

Flummy did you read
The game you GMed? Also
Vecna was scummy

He was not scummy
Maniac is voting flash
He can die after

That is some bullshit
I thought I was after flash
Syllable one two

[seth24c]

Again and again
I need to repeat myself
It's much more than that

Sorry may have missed it in all the chaos. Do you feel he is the best target for today?

For sure totally
Counterwagon to two town
Much info to get

Agree there is info to get but not better info than maniac for instance. Who are your other top preferences after flash?

[ghug]

In my opinion flash is not the best flip today. He may or may not be scum but I think we have several partners/groups that are very likely to be scum together and I would prefer to flip one of those options. Maniac in particular is extremely scummy and would give us loads of information. He never deserved to be let off the hook for being the alternate wagon to summit imo. Ghug and moscow are two other ones who I currently have above flash on my preference list.

What do you make of the fact that I'm voting for Maniac?

[ghug]

##VOTE flash

My vote is in superposition though so my last question still stands.

Suck my dick Flum.

[Donny Dude]

You refused to listen to either myself or vecna when we explained the reasons we had done things and when you misinterpreted situations or intent. I don't have time to go back through to explain again. Tunnel me if you want, I'm going to try to find scum.

I like this post.

Donny what are your reads? Do you have any strong suspicions?

Currently Kgray's post has me reconsidering my read on maniac.
I think flash is scum.

[Fluminator]

Flummy did you read
The game you GMed? Also
Vecna was scummy

He was not scummy
Maniac is voting flash
He can die after

That is some bullshit
I thought I was after flash
Syllable one two

If you flip to flash
I'll give you plus one town points
Would put you ahead

[seth24c]

In my opinion flash is not the best flip today. He may or may not be scum but I think we have several partners/groups that are very likely to be scum together and I would prefer to flip one of those options. Maniac in particular is extremely scummy and would give us loads of information. He never deserved to be let off the hook for being the alternate wagon to summit imo. Ghug and moscow are two other ones who I currently have above flash on my preference list.

What do you make of the fact that I'm voting for Maniac?

I think the writing is on the wall for maniac so I expect some scum to be on that wagon early even if he isn't the flip today. Doesn't factor into my read at this point, that could change.