M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[Donny Dude]

Can you give me examples?

I would have predicted town bozo check for our past games to see if I'm lying and be suspicious of that.

I did not have to check out pasts games to know there are no games that would lead you to the conclusion that I often bus. I asked you for examples to find out if you are just fabricating that or if you are mistaken.

I am referring to this post.

[bozotheclown]

@Durga - I’m not sure there is a benefit to keeping Bunny alive. I’m thinking through options as others should be doing. At the moment I’m hearing Bunny is 100% scum let’s kill him to find out what we already know!!

That doesn’t make sense. Mafia can be a long game and requires patience. Rushing to kill and hammer may be the best option here, but at least let’s explore the possibilities like (a) bunny could just be bad player in this game (b) is there a better kill today even if Bunny were to confess he was scum.

Even with the chance that BunnyGo's claim is true, I think it is better to verify it today so we know how to interpret the D2 voting.

How do you interpret D2 voting now?

I am not sure what you are asking. Obviously a lot of players voted for BunnyGo at some point, and they were either wrong about him or knew he was not scum (although the primary mafia team could have thought he was the traitor).

[bozotheclown]

This interaction in particular caught my eye as a time where bozo basically spelled out for summit what he had to do to try to get suspicion off of him and summit just gives a halfhearted reply that clearly says he can't do it. This really strikes me as an interaction between teammates.

It's worth noting that after this interaction bozo never changes his vote from summit but he makes multiple posts referencing the maniac wagon and maniacs claim about not reading his role pm in particular. Bozo is highly suspect.

These are good points, imo. Summit didn't respond at all to my comments about him not contributing, and I'd believe he felt more comfortable replying to his teammate's pressure.

I also still think it's suspicious that this was the only time bozo interacted with summit or said anything about him at all. He spent a lot of time justifying his first vote on Maniac at the beginning of the game but didn't seem that interested in grilling summit or convincing himself/others that summit was scum even though bozo's vote put summit in the lead.

Maniac was my first choice for the DK most of D1, but I was busy leading up to EOD and was not going to be online for awhile, so I moved my vote to summit 5 hours before EOD because his lack of significant posts was looking worse as the day went on and Maniac was not getting much interest. I was only online for about a half hour period of the time the rest of the day, during which summit was still in the lead.

[bozotheclown]

I think Donny's D1 looks slightly worse than seth's D1.

##VOTE Donny

I think bozo's D1 looks slightly worse than seth's D1.

##vote bozo

OK, but what does this mean about Donny's D1?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo is another top suspect in my eyes. He pushed almost the exact same group as damo did but in his cases and posts seemed to leave damo alone out of the group he mainly pushed donny and myself with some cases that didn't seem to have much conviction behind them.

I gave detailed reasons why I thought Donny and you were the best scum candidates among those who did not vote for summit before Chaqa's claim. I will include them here because they still apply:

I think Donny's D1 voting looks the most suspicious.

There was a significant amount of time where Donny was a top wagon along with summit. During this time, he tried to help build wagons on Tom and Nanook but never voted for summit. Donny later voted for damo when damo was leading summit 4-3, then when summit had retaken the lead from damo, Donny switched to Maniac. Despite choosing all of these votes over summit, Donny never mentioned summit until EOD, and the reasons he gave for these votes were not particularly strong:









##VOTE Donny

seth's D1 looks almost as suspicious as Donny's D1. seth never gave a reason why he did not want to vote for summit, but actively pushed damo and Maniac.



seth was the first vote for damo but he knew there was interest in damo, and damo became the lead wagon 30 minutes after seth's vote.



damo was well behind by the time seth changed his vote, so commenting the he was "feeling a little better about damo" was not really necessary. Also, his reasoning for voting for Maniac was questionable, since Maniac only said "hi" twice, and that was in response to ghug and TrPrado, yet seth indicated he had just reread Maniac's posts.

Finally, when it was looking likely summit would be the kill, seth seemed to hedge on his lack of a summit read:

Can you explain to me more specifically why you think these cases "didn't seem to have much conviction behind them"?

For example. I have mentioned multiple times that I was reading maniac on the bot so that is why I didn't realize that he was responding to people saying hi instead of initiating those interactions. I've made it clear that I made a mistake and you leaving that out of your case even as you were detailed enough to reference my post about feeling a little better about damo feels like you are trying to cast suspicion on me without the conviction to actually read all my posts to find out my true alignment. It felt like you are trying to make me look scummy instead of find out whether I am scum.

I read all of your posts and I was aware that you said you were reading Maniac on the bot and did not notice he was responding to others, but it was N1 when you said that, so it does not change much how I interpret D1. However, the main thing I found questionable about your reasoning for voting for Maniac was that even though you said you read him again, you said you "forgot how much" he was doing it when he only responded 2 times, to ghug and TrPrado:

@rdr what's your case on Maniac

I didn't like the way he defended Chaqa, it looks like buddying and I didn't like him joke claiming scum.

He also did some pretty heavy hi’ing in the beginning of the game. I forgot how much until reading him again. Feeling a little better about damo so making maniac a bigger wagon works for me. ##vote maniac

The wording of this posts does not seem consistent with you knowing Maniac had only done this 2 times, even if you didn't realize he was not initiating it.

[bozotheclown]

I don’t think Seth is scum.

I think Flash might be. He voted Summit early D1 and then didn’t do much. Maybe he’s lucky scum who can coast all game because of that one early vote. If I was in scum team my advice to flash would be say very little. Be our deep threat.

##vote Flash

Since M1012/M1013, it has been a running joke for flash to vote for summit at the beginning of D1. However, if they both rolled scum, I think flash would still vote for him. I know someone said flash could have gotten off of summit's wagon any time D1 since his vote was not considered serious, but even though he could have gotten off of summit's wagon, I am not sure he would have. As I pointed out in M59, flash is capable of lurking his way to victory as scum (even though he turned out to be town in M59).

[Maniac]

I don’t think Seth is scum.

I think Flash might be. He voted Summit early D1 and then didn’t do much. Maybe he’s lucky scum who can coast all game because of that one early vote. If I was in scum team my advice to flash would be say very little. Be our deep threat.

##vote Flash

Since M1012/M1013, it has been a running joke for flash to vote for summit at the beginning of D1. However, if they both rolled scum, I think flash would still vote for him. I know someone said flash could have gotten off of summit's wagon any time D1 since his vote was not considered serious, but even though he could have gotten off of summit's wagon, I am not sure he would have. As I pointed out in M59, flash is capable of lurking his way to victory as scum (even though he turned out to be town in M59).

Thanks Bozo. This is when knowing people meta and past voting really helps.

[Nanook]

Oh no I have two votes on me. Whatsoever will I do.

Hopefully get more.

Yes bb vote me harder

[ghug]

Bad meta read I guess. I actually haven't noticed anything super scummy from Donny, and Seth seems different to me than last game when he was scum.

What about seth seems different from last game?

He is much more sloppy than last game in saying and doing stuff that makes him look bad. I think it's more evidence he's a clueless townie than a scum.
I also liked his catchup posts last night.

He obvtowned so hard in his first game when he started receiving pressure and I'm not seeing that here. I also know he was town on that game though so idk.

[Nanook]

I think damo is >rand town, he looks a lot like I remember him from the ship

[ghug]

Town damo is usually active and somewhat sloppy in conveying his thoughts because his town mind often makes leaps he forgets to update people on.

This is not town damo. Especially that longass post about why he was voting Bunny. I don't think I've ever really seen town damo put much effort into explaining his thought process tbh.

I'm sure he'll have some excuse for being busy which might be fair, but I've heard a few people say scum damo is nervous and likes to lurk. What's people's experience with scum damo?

My sense was that he really kept his head down, but it was also in a game where it was KILO immediately and the town didn't know that. He had a couple of posts EoD1 that I liked this game, but not a whole lot since.

[bozotheclown]

I would have predicted town bozo check for our past games to see if I'm lying and be suspicious of that.

I did not have to check out pasts games to know there are no games that would lead you to the conclusion that I often bus. I asked you for examples to find out if you are just fabricating that or if you are mistaken.

I am referring to this post.

In the post that started this, Fluminator said "I notice you bus a lot as scum". This is not true, so I wanted to see if he could come up with a basis for this claim.

[Vecna]

Vec, how heavily do you think summit was bussed?

this really seems like a useless way to continue to approach scumreads. I have my reads, and my poe pool. A few of them bussed, some didnt.

[Vecna]

Hard hate this post

Why do you hate it?

Bering that uncomfortable about the gun's existence is not a good look.

what makes you think im uncomfortable about the gun as opposed to the way and timing of toms claiming?

Theres pretty much a zero chance im getting shot by it. tom b has been townreading me all game.

the only thing uncomfortable to me is the idea of scum holstering a gun. and after I bring that up, the gun ia suddenly claimed.

[Vecna]

##Vote damo is scum btw
I'm only letting Durga live this time because I like her

its just weird, because she aknowledged the long night would be good for her to catch up, but then none of that happened.

Not like im doubting its very ai for her because shes not afriad of talking up a storm as scum, but its day 4 now and its starting to become too much.

[Vecna]

This is pretty much my poe pool for scum now. I townread pretty much everyone else, or have reasons to be ok with them.

Pretty big suspicion:
Durga
Hellenic Riot
damo666
flash2015

Maniac
Nanook

seth24c
(worcej)
Low'ish suspicion

feeling pretty good about these reads.

How has flash done enough to go in your "pretty big suspicion" pile?

why single out flash in that question? id say its pretty obvious both him and durga are in there because theyre hardcore lurking.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 4.1

Nanook (2) - worcej, seth24c
seth24c (2) - ghug, Nanook
Donny Dude (1) - bozotheclown
Durga (1) - Vecna
damo666 (1) - Fluminator
bozotheclown (1) - kgray
flash2015 (1) - Maniac

NOBODY is set to be removed.

36 hours and 9 minutes remain in D4.

[Vecna]

Should I shoot Maniac or worcej?

Shoot me. I’m pretty pissed off being surrounded by people who are either dumb or scum. If we carry on as we are we’ll just hand the game to the Riddler anyway . I don’t have time for this shit. Allowing PR claims whilst close to being killed exposed Chaqa who thought trading one for one was a good idea. Then you all rush to kill Bunny when I urge caution and now you all want even look at policy killing anyone who claims. Seriously the Riddler is laughing his ass off.

I’m going to Policy vote for anyone who claims PR. True PRs get killed in the night anyway mostly likely. Scum fake claiming get to avoid a kill and most likely expose a PR. Vanilla Toons should just accept they are sometimes cannon fodder and go quietly.

If you (Tom) think my policy voting people who claim PR is at odds with the prevailing group think, please shoot me now. I have better things to do than play with dumb people.

why so indignant maniac? the riddler will still need to distinguish between vt's, remaining prs, the scum roles. Why do you think itll be so easy for him to solve the game before eating a lynch for being scummy? on top of there only being a 50/50 of it being in the game, your post just seems like weaksauce fakery to appear not afraid of eating a bullit.

[Vecna]

Oh no I have two votes on me. Whatsoever will I do.

should try solving that game so it dont become more votes.

this "im too cool for school" defense effectiveness is about to wear off.

[Vecna]

Should I shoot Maniac or worcej?

Shoot me. I’m pretty pissed off being surrounded by people who are either dumb or scum. If we carry on as we are we’ll just hand the game to the Riddler anyway . I don’t have time for this shit. Allowing PR claims whilst close to being killed exposed Chaqa who thought trading one for one was a good idea. Then you all rush to kill Bunny when I urge caution and now you all want even look at policy killing anyone who claims. Seriously the Riddler is laughing his ass off.

I’m going to Policy vote for anyone who claims PR. True PRs get killed in the night anyway mostly likely. Scum fake claiming get to avoid a kill and most likely expose a PR. Vanilla Toons should just accept they are sometimes cannon fodder and go quietly.

If you (Tom) think my policy voting people who claim PR is at odds with the prevailing group think, please shoot me now. I have better things to do than play with dumb people.

Maniac is the 3P.

but...but.....bozo?