M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[seth24c]

seth's D1 looks almost as suspicious as Donny's D1. seth never gave a reason why he did not want to vote for summit, but actively pushed damo and Maniac.

Yeah I feel like he really didn't care in the mini game as scum, and I'm not seeing any caring here.

Lots of people talking but nobody voting. ##vote damo

seth was the first vote for damo but he knew there was interest in damo, and damo became the lead wagon 30 minutes after seth's vote.

I didn't like the way he defended Chaqa, it looks like buddying and I didn't like him joke claiming scum.

He also did some pretty heavy hi’ing in the beginning of the game. I forgot how much until reading him again. Feeling a little better about damo so making maniac a bigger wagon works for me. ##vote maniac

damo was well behind by the time seth changed his vote, so commenting the he was "feeling a little better about damo" was not really necessary. Also, his reasoning for voting for Maniac was questionable, since Maniac only said "hi" twice, and that was in response to ghug and TrPrado, yet seth indicated he had just reread Maniac's posts.

Finally, when it was looking likely summit would be the kill, seth seemed to hedge on his lack of a summit read:

I really don't like these wagons, though, and I think Nanook, seth, Prado, and others are getting off too easy.

Lol after maniac claimed scum and possibly signaled traitor? If summit isn’t scum on the flip I will be convinced that maniac is.

Perfectly happy to see summit flip because he has seemed scummy to me as well. But if he isn’t scum maniac is public enemy number 1 imo.

I pushed the people I scumread. Damo hadn’t done anything of use and then once he came back and started posting I started to feel a little bit better about him. I had just read maniac on the bot and forgot to check if he was replying and I assumed he initiated the hi interactions. It was a poor case on my part but maniac has also stated that he was indeed softing mafia because he didn’t realize there was a traitor. So at least realize I had a basis for the people I was pushing. There were enough people pushing summit that I felt confident to explore other options to see what other information we could gather.

[seth24c]

I agree this is a good place to look for scum.

Damo in particular is intriguing since he isn’t interested in actually finding scum he just wants to vote someone on the maniac wagon.

Nonsense. I believe either you or Nanook are scum, possibly both. Therefore it is statistically better to vote one of you 2 than search among 4 or 5 potential bussers.

The use of statistically here is hilarious damo. “Statistically because I believe”. You can hardly count the voters after chaqa’s counter claim as bussers at all. I had plenty of time to jump on the summit wagon after the claim if I wanted to, if I was scum and knew his alignment you really think I would have stayed off wagon?

[Durga]

Yeah I'm not really gonna be around much today because my parents are getting married and then I'm playing a diplomacy game in the evening, I have not read the last few pages

I don't really see Donny as scum. I'm less sure about Nook bc I would think he would have contributed something more substantive by now, unless he's done so in the last several pages. Seth... Who is Seth??? Nothing Seth has said is sticking to me

##vote bunny for now

[Durga]

Ok maybe I'm being unfair to Seth

[BunnyGo]

Ok. Back for a quick look. Not much new. I’m happy with these wagons today. Might want a Moscow Fleet look too. Someone should take a peek. Definitely compare with M59 in mind. But if we’re gonna have just 3 wagons, these are good ones.

[Tom Bombadil]

Ok. Back for a quick look. Not much new. I’m happy with these wagons today. Might want a Moscow Fleet look too. Someone should take a peek. Definitely compare with M59 in mind. But if we’re gonna have just 3 wagons, these are good ones.

Moscow seemed pretty towny to me D1. Also had a very meaningful vote on summit with 15 minutes left when Manic was at 8 and summit at 7

[damo666]

I just read through Rdr again and see no crumbs nor softing. So I dunno what scum saw. Would they bypass Chaqa for rando town just for his reads? Was it calling Durga’s defense of kgray a sorority thing?

Hey Chaq: you didn’t claim RBd.

Bypass Chaqa? You are either scum, very observant or thick. I don't think you're the last and would be surprised by the second so I conclude you are scum.

This is an excellent point. I am very disappointed in myself here.

You realise I meant unobservant right? You didn't point it out so maybe you are. Lol

[BunnyGo]

Bypass Chaqa? You are either scum, very observant or thick. I don't think you're the last and would be surprised by the second so I conclude you are scum.

This is an excellent point. I am very disappointed in myself here.

You realise I meant unobservant right? You didn't point it out so maybe you are. Lol

The meaning was clear

[damo666]

I'm thinking the Bunny Chaqa thing is a fake townslip but would scum Bunny do the fake crumbing,? I's of no use as scum until bugs revealed. More likely as VT trying to draw NK.

I am in the camp where DKing Donny would clear Biunny if Donny flips scum.

##vote Donny

I am prepared to switch to Seth or back to Nanook if either are viable.

So Donny or Bunny, plus Seth and/or Nanook, plus one of Flash, Flum, Vecna , TrPrado if required.

so youre scumreading all three of us, but take my word/logic for it that scumflipping either clears the other eh? Whats to say I did not tell donny and bunny yo bus eachother hard because theyre both under scrutiny, to set up for the endgame?

Possible but doubtful.

[damo666]

mightily convenient to sheep that logic for an easy vote, esp since its coming from someone you scumread.

Not sure if you're talking to me but if I'm sheeping anyone it's Bozo who I strongly townread.

[damo666]

mightily convenient to sheep that logic for an easy vote, esp since its coming from someone you scumread.

Not sure if you're talking to me but if I'm sheeping anyone it's Bozo who I strongly townread.

Sheeping Bozo re Donny. I guess I'n sheeping you on the scumDonny => nonscumBunny. So to satisfy you if Donny flips scum we'll DK you and if you flip town Bunny is clear. That ok?

[damo666]

Damo in particular is intriguing since he isn’t interested in actually finding scum he just wants to vote someone on the maniac wagon.

Nonsense. I believe either you or Nanook are scum, possibly both. Therefore it is statistically better to vote one of you 2 than search among 4 or 5 potential bussers.

The use of statistically here is hilarious damo. “Statistically because I believe”. You can hardly count the voters after chaqa’s counter claim as bussers at all. I had plenty of time to jump on the summit wagon after the claim if I wanted to, if I was scum and knew his alignment you really think I would have stayed off wagon?

If you had plenty of time (which you did because you congratualted Chaqa with a minute to go) I want to know why townSeth stayed off wagon. No, don't tell me, you didn't want to look like a busser.

OK I'll appease you. Let's combine the Maniac voters and the late switchers:

We have Seth, Nanook, Vecna, Donny, Bunny, TrPrado and me.

S->T Donny Nanook Seth Bunny TrPrado Vecna Me.

[Fluminator]

mightily convenient to sheep that logic for an easy vote, esp since its coming from someone you scumread.

Not sure if you're talking to me but if I'm sheeping anyone it's Bozo who I strongly townread.

I am just starting to get suspicious of him, why bozo?

[ghug]

It was pretty obvious that chaqa was in jail last night

I did not pick up on that at all, which makes me wonder how the hell I missed that.

Does anyone here believe this?

I just learned how the jailing works, so yes.

[ghug]

##vote TrPrado

Damo/Seth also work just fine for me.

Maybe a bozo for that Rdrivera kill

Here were rdrivera's reads:

I totally agree that Summit won't claim if Maniac was scum. Yes, he can be traitor, but it's a less likely possibility, so I would give Maniac some credit.

On VCA, Ghug, Moscow and Tom get most towny points. Prado and Damo get most scummy points. Worcej also doesn't look good, but I still don't get scum vibes from him. And everybody already pointed this

Kgray is a solid town, she was the one giving a solid reason to scumread Summit, having played with scum Summit before. Flum reasoning is weird, but I don't see scum bussing that way. I would add Flash, HR and Durga to probably town (at least not people to worry at D2). The late voters are less towny as we should have some bussers.

My top scum suspects are now Prado, Bunny and Seth. Nannok also by elimination. Damo and Worcej could be fooling me, but I still townread them.

You seem to now generally agree with his reads, but at the time you had a number of questions for him.

Who were you asking this question, because damo and rdrivera both answered:

no mention of me?

There is now.

You voted Summit when it's done, so you don't get towny points. And you didn't obvtowned like last game, but I don't see nothing scummy too, so you are in the maybe deep scum region with Bozo. If you are still alive after some days I start worrying.

I believe you were asking rdrivera, and you asking about his read of you, his answer, and his mention of me in his answer makes me suspect you killed rdrivera and are trying to deflect suspicion onto me.

I made that comment because I thought maybe you had picked up on a soft made by Rdrivera. It seems like the weird type of kill that you might make for PR suspicions by picking up on something. But after looking through the iso (and the reminder that Rdrivera has a firm anti-softing policy) its much more likely they just had some ~other~ reason.

Not that I would mind prodding you to get more out of you, but that particular thought probably wont go anywhere.

Didn't rd soft in the last game I was in?

I think he intimated that he wouldn't be daykilled and worcej picked up on it.

[Fluminator]

Bunny is off his A game regardless of his alignment. I see a world where he's still town though.

I'm more interested in ##vote Prado

[ghug]

I think Donny's D1 voting looks the most suspicious.

There was a significant amount of time where Donny was a top wagon along with summit. During this time, he tried to help build wagons on Tom and Nanook but never voted for summit. Donny later voted for damo when damo was leading summit 4-3, then when summit had retaken the lead from damo, Donny switched to Maniac. Despite choosing all of these votes over summit, Donny never mentioned summit until EOD, and the reasons he gave for these votes were not particularly strong:

##vote Tom
gah

I will join.
##vote Nanook
I don't really buy the whole flash is ran town joke also.

That seems weak to me Damo, spelling errors.
##vote damo.

Maniac, you previously stated in post 806 that you thought Damo was making this too easy and that you wanted a list from him.
You then said if Damo did then your vote would shift onto Moscow.
Yet, here I see you have unvoted, do you read moscow differently from then?
##vote Maniac

##VOTE Donny

Even though ive been townreading donny all of D1, I might actually feel inclined to like this logic. There has been this gnawing feeling that all his posts feel very good on the surface, but there still is a lack of extremely stand-out townposts as he had in his first game I think it was? (where he got mislynched due to that slip iirc).

His posts feel good on the surface?

[ghug]

Was thinking gerneally about potential busters of summit and I think kgray is pretty unlikely. She has shown she can definitely bus, but as someone who saw firsthand how summit struggled last time, I don’t think she would immediately throw him on the tracks this game.

I understand the angle of bussing the potential weak link, but I don’t know if kgray would be cold blooded enough to do that to someone she just played with as scum and saw struggle.

did she start before or after the "show offline" thing became a thing?

Not that im really suspicious of her whatsoever, but ill stick to my earlier observations that her play is actually a bit closer to how she reasons and plays as scum than as town.

3p is still something to keep in mind maybe, for much much later on, if she somehow remains unresolved.

This feels so forced

[Fluminator]

When Prado is town, he's much more stream of conscious. People should skim through his previous games.
His defense of summit was the scummiest because he wasn't doing much else and reeked of scum apathy.

[bozotheclown]

Was worcej softing strongman? Did Donny respond here with his first post?

That was Donny's first post, and worcej had already posted some Schwarzenegger quotes, then worcej posted the same quote as Donny:

"Hasta la vista, Baby..."

I thought it was possible Donny was signaling to worcej that he was the traitor and worcej was acknowledging it. I asked worcej about this as he avoided the question:

"It's showtime!"

Question bozo: Do you think scum would be messaging so openly after what happened to you in last game?

I don't know, but Donny was not in the last game. I thought it was worth asking why worcej repeated the same quote.