M59 - Duck Season? - Game Thread

[TrPrado]

Why would town!fourth allow Tom to deceive town? I was willing to believe there was no reason for either to remember the other but I failed to read the public press.

You're actually buying into the "they knew each other" rhetoric?

I'm buying in that fourth knew Tom to the point he would remember him. I find it odd that was never acknowledged when Tom was making a point of suggesting he had little knowledge of who fourth was.

Cf. with worcej and seth discussing a previous game in a way that seems natural. Fourth's acknowledgment of the relationship to Bozo does not seem natural to me. It seems like he was caught.

He's never played a game of Mafia with us before, why would he expect to be remembered in the same way as people who have? It's a pretty clearly surface level interaction that is being read into a lot more than makes sense.

[kgray]

I'm more wrapped up in how fourth handled the situation. Take a look at worcej and seth for a previous diplomacy interaction that seems fairly townie.

I can't gather how well Tom knew fourth, but I know fourth knew Tom well enough to throw a welcome back to him in a recent diplomacy game.

Now if you're town!fourth in your first mafia game on webdip and Tom is hinting that he has no clue who you are, what do you do? Do you stay silent about that through day 1? How about when Tom flips at the start of day 2?

Bozo did not question fourth about Tom until a few hours had passed on day 2 (44 hours left on day). Fourth had posted at almost 47 hours left on day 2.

Tom did not say he had no clue who hthefourth is. He said he doesn't know hthefourth like he does bozo and damo. That just means he doesn't know him as well, and it's pretty obvious that he doesn't know him as well in the context of mafia as they'd never played mafia before.

Fair enough. Tom also made it a point to feign ignorance on how much mafia fourth had played, when his post count numbers would obviously indicate he hadn't ever played here.

Anyways, I'm not that interested in Tom's posts on this. I'm interested in fourth's reaction, or lack thereof, to these posts.

If hthefourth interpreted Tom's posts the way I do, why should he react at all??

[summit_fever]

##unvote Bozo

Enough reasonable doubt by now to stop tunneling on this theory. GJ to them three if theyre actually scum and managed to delay the obvious, but I doubt theyd be fighting this hard if that was the case.

If the theory is true we will catch them. We will lose out on the epic murder of Bozo to crush scum on day 2 though.

[rdrivera2005]

I don't think we should shoot bozo either.

If we're going to do one of Bunny/bozo/Durga then I think it should be Bunny.

I would support an hthefourth/emc shot, and I think seth is an okay shot too. Food I think is unlikely to be scum at this point and I don't think he should be shot.

I don't agree, if we want to set this thing we should flip Bozo. Or we just forget and do a regular day.

No need to do this. Just like there was no need to flip Hamilton in M1015. Bozo isn't, on the whole, scummy enough to kill today. I can find more reasons to scum vecna and I don't think we should kill him either.

Are you considering Bozo is the top wagon and Bunny the second and most of the votes are justified by Kgray's theory?

[TrPrado]

Why do you think hthefourth was obvtown?

"he was too brazen and independent to be scum in his first game"

reading new players is my specialty

He was so brazen he stayed completely silent on the fact that he knew who Tom was? Bozo had to squeeze that info out of him.

I assume a lot of people are aware of who Tom is, he was a moderator when that game started and is relatively active.

[summit_fever]

Tom did not say he had no clue who hthefourth is. He said he doesn't know hthefourth like he does bozo and damo. That just means he doesn't know him as well, and it's pretty obvious that he doesn't know him as well in the context of mafia as they'd never played mafia before.

Fair enough. Tom also made it a point to feign ignorance on how much mafia fourth had played, when his post count numbers would obviously indicate he hadn't ever played here.

Anyways, I'm not that interested in Tom's posts on this. I'm interested in fourth's reaction, or lack thereof, to these posts.

If hthefourth interpreted Tom's posts the way I do, why should he react at all??

Well there is the mafia maxim 'butcher all bullshitters'. Not sure if fourth would have understood that, but he seemed keen to me.

[summit_fever]

My mistake--forgot that the traitor comes into the game knowing their teammates. That seems creative, and also plausible.

You did not answer my question about whether you knew Tom before this game.

In real life? No. On webdip? Played a game with him. On mafia? No.

Do you like this response kgray?

[Durga]

This conversation is worse than the bozo!traitor one.

Maybe we should just off bozo on principle for being the reason all of these terrible convos are even happening.

[summit_fever]

This conversation is worse than the bozo!traitor one.

Maybe we should just off bozo on principle for being the reason all of these terrible convos are even happening.

Change the direction then. I'm open to discuss other things.

[kgray]

Fair enough. Tom also made it a point to feign ignorance on how much mafia fourth had played, when his post count numbers would obviously indicate he hadn't ever played here.

Anyways, I'm not that interested in Tom's posts on this. I'm interested in fourth's reaction, or lack thereof, to these posts.

If hthefourth interpreted Tom's posts the way I do, why should he react at all??

Well there is the mafia maxim 'butcher all bullshitters'. Not sure if fourth would have understood that, but he seemed keen to me.

Oh my god summit.

Tom. Wasn't. Bullshitting. About. Knowing. Hthefourth.

"I don't know hthefourth like I know bozo and damo" is NOT the same as "I have no idea who hthefourth is."

The fact that you expect a brand new mafia player to call out Tom for this comment based on the fact that they'd played one Diplomacy game together is a little ridiculous. The fact that it's part of your scumread of hthefourth when there are plenty of other things to consider is really frustrating.

[kgray]

You did not answer my question about whether you knew Tom before this game.

In real life? No. On webdip? Played a game with him. On mafia? No.

Do you like this response kgray?

It's fine. It seems accurate.

If anything, this is worse:

Do you think he did not remember you?

From the game of diplomacy? Plausible. It was a game with a lot of heavy hitters on this site and I got knocked early. What's your point?

A little defensive, like he was when I asked him how he knew what iso meant. Could be scummy, could just be newness.

[kgray]

This conversation is worse than the bozo!traitor one.

Maybe we should just off bozo on principle for being the reason all of these terrible convos are even happening.

Change the direction then. I'm open to discuss other things.

Thoughts on rivera? TrPrado? Flum? I haven't thought about them much at all recently.

[summit_fever]

If hthefourth interpreted Tom's posts the way I do, why should he react at all??

Well there is the mafia maxim 'butcher all bullshitters'. Not sure if fourth would have understood that, but he seemed keen to me.

Oh my god summit.

Tom. Wasn't. Bullshitting. About. Knowing. Hthefourth.

"I don't know hthefourth like I know bozo and damo" is NOT the same as "I have no idea who hthefourth is."

The fact that you expect a brand new mafia player to call out Tom for this comment based on the fact that they'd played one Diplomacy game together is a little ridiculous. The fact that it's part of your scumread of hthefourth when there are plenty of other things to consider is really frustrating.

The fourth may be new at webdip forum mafia, but I don't have the impression he was new to mafia. Anyways it's nothing to get frustrated over. I'm not the most logical person at the best of times, and I'm not going to waste a lot of energy pushing fourth... But I don't like his record in this game.

I hate everything about the leading wagons. ##vote Seth. Where is that scummy lurker? Hasn’t shown up since last night when I made a case about his EOD1.

I'm having a hard time parsing Bunny's brashness from his identity. This is how I'd expect scum to talk in backyard mafia games. Is he normally like this?

Also no fan of Seth's play thus far, but worried about hopping on the seth wagon because a lurking townie (presumably) was the main wagon competing with MF yesterday.

[bozotheclown]

I was hesitant to say this, but since Fluminator is claiming to have a gun and is threatening to shoot the lead wagon at the 24 hour mark, and a number of others are calling for me to be shot:

I claim that I am a VT.

Ok, Goldy is probably town. He thinks it's Looney Toons lol.

Also, what did you mean by this, and does it have something to do with the other post I referenced?

He called show looney toons when it's actually looney tunes. One of the role PMs mentions vanilla toon. I thought it was cute.

The reason I questioned Fluminator on this is because I thought this was the reason Fluminator said something about goldfinger's PM, and it indicates that Fluminator is unlikely to have seen a real VT role PM. So, if Fluminator does not turn out to be a PR, he is probably mafia.

For those who are going to want to complain about potentially outing PRs, I think a mass claim would be a good idea right now, we could probably solve the game today.

[summit_fever]

This conversation is worse than the bozo!traitor one.

Maybe we should just off bozo on principle for being the reason all of these terrible convos are even happening.

Change the direction then. I'm open to discuss other things.

Thoughts on rivera? TrPrado? Flum? I haven't thought about them much at all recently.

Rivera is obvtown, which might be a problem. Prado.. Seems normal. Flum not having the gall to pick his shot is annoying to me, but I've never been in a vig game before.

[kgray]

The fourth may be new at webdip forum mafia, but I don't have the impression he was new to mafia. Anyways it's nothing to get frustrated over. I'm not the most logical person at the best of times, and I'm not going to waste a lot of energy pushing fourth... But I don't like his record in this game.

Yeah, sorry. I just think this is a really silly thing to get caught up in, but of course I also got caught up in it. I don't mind pushing fourth/emc on other things. I think there's a decent chance that slot is the traitor.

[rdrivera2005]

I was hesitant to say this, but since Fluminator is claiming to have a gun and is threatening to shoot the lead wagon at the 24 hour mark, and a number of others are calling for me to be shot:

I claim that I am a VT.

Also, what did you mean by this, and does it have something to do with the other post I referenced?

He called show looney toons when it's actually looney tunes. One of the role PMs mentions vanilla toon. I thought it was cute.

The reason I questioned Fluminator on this is because I thought this was the reason Fluminator said something about goldfinger's PM, and it indicates that Fluminator is unlikely to have seen a real VT role PM. So, if Fluminator does not turn out to be a PR, he is probably mafia.

For those who are going to want to complain about potentially outing PRs, I think a mass claim would be a good idea right now, we could probably solve the game today.

I think we might consider not shooting Bozo after all.

[kgray]

I was hesitant to say this, but since Fluminator is claiming to have a gun and is threatening to shoot the lead wagon at the 24 hour mark, and a number of others are calling for me to be shot:

I claim that I am a VT.

Also, what did you mean by this, and does it have something to do with the other post I referenced?

He called show looney toons when it's actually looney tunes. One of the role PMs mentions vanilla toon. I thought it was cute.

The reason I questioned Fluminator on this is because I thought this was the reason Fluminator said something about goldfinger's PM, and it indicates that Fluminator is unlikely to have seen a real VT role PM. So, if Fluminator does not turn out to be a PR, he is probably mafia.

For those who are going to want to complain about potentially outing PRs, I think a mass claim would be a good idea right now, we could probably solve the game today.

I noticed this too and will confirm (if you believe me) that bozo is correct, and therefore I believe he's a VT. Not sure how I feel about massclaim, but hopefully by me saying this we don't have to out any PRs if we don't think we should.

[bozotheclown]

If hthefourth interpreted Tom's posts the way I do, why should he react at all??

Well there is the mafia maxim 'butcher all bullshitters'. Not sure if fourth would have understood that, but he seemed keen to me.

Oh my god summit.

Tom. Wasn't. Bullshitting. About. Knowing. Hthefourth.

"I don't know hthefourth like I know bozo and damo" is NOT the same as "I have no idea who hthefourth is."

The fact that you expect a brand new mafia player to call out Tom for this comment based on the fact that they'd played one Diplomacy game together is a little ridiculous. The fact that it's part of your scumread of hthefourth when there are plenty of other things to consider is really frustrating.

Tom was mafia and therefore trying to deceive us. Also, you changed the punctuation in your quote and changed the connotation of what he said:

Well this is a little interesting to wake up to.

I don’t get any read on Bunny from this as he tends to latch onto everything and anything and pursue it.

I would have thought bozo and damo had better opinions of me than to think I would do something as idiotic as they are speculating.

Kgray and sort of Vecna defending me a bit. Kgray pocketed me hard last game - don’t know she’d try to do it consecutively - so slight townread for her.

Why you ignored hthefourth defense of you?

His post seems less a defense of me and more an attack on Bunny (which indirectly defends me, but I don’t think that was the intention. I can see why people would scumread Bunny in general because of how he plays. I also don’t know hthefourth, like I do bozo and damo

[Fluminator]

Oops, I've misplaced my gun and seem to have lost it. Sorry.
I think Bozo is probably town.

##unvote Bozo