M59 - Duck Season? - Game Thread

[kgray]

Pfff, dont you go pretending you did the heavy lifting on this one

Yeah, maybe. I certainly felt better about my read knowing who was already voting him!

But this is my first time killing scum as town and I pretty much made the push at the end that got him killed, so I'm excited and am going to take some credit for it

I told my gut feelings are getting better.

Getting scum D1 is great, but also having a towncore is even better. Vecna, kgray, summit, damo and Flum are all town. Yav and Flash are probably town too.

What makes you think Flash is probably town?

[kgray]

Well, I reckon this shouldn't be too difficult now. Imo everyone on MF is town with the possible exception of seth. Don't see anyone else bussing there.

FWIW, I would definitely not assume everyone is town just because they voted for him on D1.

I won't assume either, but I don't see me voting anyone on Moscow wagon the next days (maybe seth).

Why seth? I think he's looking pretty good after that EOD.

[bozotheclown]

Well, I reckon this shouldn't be too difficult now. Imo everyone on MF is town with the possible exception of seth. Don't see anyone else bussing there.

What if flash is scum as well?

[kgray]

Well, I reckon this shouldn't be too difficult now. Imo everyone on MF is town with the possible exception of seth. Don't see anyone else bussing there.

FWIW, I would definitely not assume everyone is town just because they voted for him on D1.

I'm not saying they are town because they voted MF. I am saying I think everyone who voted MF happens to be town (well, possibly not Seth and Flash I suppose). They are different things.

Also you, why the hesitation on seth?

[kgray]

Okay, my statement is still mostly the same - I don't think every person on MF is town and I bet there is a busser.

Fair enough. Who do you think the most likely busser then?

By low information VCA, Flum and kgray stand out as the most likely options

What did you think was scummy about my votes?

[kgray]

I disagree. I think it's valuable. I'd be shocked if there weren't at least two of his scummates among the unmentioned. Probably 3. Maybe even all 4!

im sure if you ran your numbers you'd have to conclude even if your assumptions are true it barely helps us at all

Actually you're right. H e only mentions me, Macca and Yav so my statement doesn't say much. Sorry.

I think you can assume that me, Macca and Yav are not all scum though!

He also mentioned Durga and me.

[kgray]

Do you think I would push flash over MF is MF was my scum partner?

I don’t know, I’ve never seen you as scum and I don’t know if you like to bus or not.

He bussed me HARD one game (was the only one pushing me the whole game). But he was the traitor with no knowledge of the rest of the team.

I thought he never scanned you? But yeah, he didn't know who his teammates were so I don't think it says much about his scum meta.

[bozotheclown]

I disagree. I think it's valuable. I'd be shocked if there weren't at least two of his scummates among the unmentioned. Probably 3. Maybe even all 4!

im sure if you ran your numbers you'd have to conclude even if your assumptions are true it barely helps us at all

Actually you're right. H e only mentions me, Macca and Yav so my statement doesn't say much. Sorry.

I think you can assume that me, Macca and Yav are not all scum though!

That is not accurate, he mentioned Fluminator, Durga, and kgray as well.

[bozotheclown]

I don’t know, I’ve never seen you as scum and I don’t know if you like to bus or not.

He bussed me HARD one game (was the only one pushing me the whole game). But he was the traitor with no knowledge of the rest of the team.

I thought he never scanned you? But yeah, he didn't know who his teammates were so I don't think it says much about his scum meta.

I never scanned BunnyGo, but I did really think he was scum in that game, so I did know there was a reasonable chance I was bussing him. I also bussed Bob that game on the day he was killed, but Bob was looking very suspicious (which is why I scanned him), so I thought it was important to be on the right side of that kill. That game was somewhat atypical though.

[bozotheclown]

I don't like the damo wagon anymore for previously stated reasons. Maybe I can reevaluate later if I have to but as of now I'm finding it hard to believe he's calling out prs as scum.

I have to go now, so if you guys screw up and kill me, I think Macca and especially yaz now after the vote fiasco both deserve closer looks and more questioning. Someone else who I think has been flying way under the radar is flum which shouldn't be dismissed. I feel good about durga and gray as town. Macca looks like it's not going to happen so ##Vote yaz, partly because of his vote and partly to save myself. Peace.

I am going to ignore Vecna's advice to ignore this WIFOM post.

MF town reads damo, Durga, and kgray and scum reads Macca, yavuzovic, and Fluminator. However, what I find interesting is that MF does not mention flash, who he was tied with at the time of this post. Instead MF votes for yavuzovic to make it a 3 way tie. Maybe MF had no choice but to leave, but it could have been a game related decision if flash is also scum.

I'm a fan of the line of reasoning that HR has posited.

I think killing Flash is a shot in the dark, but I still think it's much better than offing food who has shown a willingness to show up and be active. People seem to be shying away from macca based off of meta - can anyone give a more thorough explanation of how he's been different from his scum meta? HR says he seems more engaged, which is surprising because imo he's barely been engaged here.

This is MF's last mention of flash, where he indicated a willingness to vote for him, but then ignored flash when placed his final vote on yavuzovic, even though he commented on damo, who was the other MF could have voted for to cause a 3 way tie.

I think Macca and yavuzovic come out looking very likely town, I doubt MF would be bussing them to try to save himself. Mentioning Fluminator as another possible scum suspect make me think Fluminator could be his partner. MF town reading damo, Durga, and kgray could be an attempt to pocket them to keep or get them off of his wagon.

[bozotheclown]

What are your reasons for these townreads?

But the point is EVERYONE name top 4 reads. I don’t care if reasons aren’t given or not. I’m dumb like that.

Is this so scum can figure out who they should nightkill? What's the point if there's no reason given.

I think Goldy has a town PM.
I like Seth's and Summit's vibes so far. It could be I'm very unfamiliar with them and not paranoid enough of their skills.
I can never read Bozo but I liked his opening and the reaction towards it makes me lean town.

I'm going to assume Vecna and Tom are town for at least today.

Why did you word your town read of goldfinger in that manner?

[bozotheclown]

When flash came back from his long absence, he was tied with MF and he self voted. When MF made his final post, he was tied with flash and he voted for yavuzovic. I think flipping flash next would be a good idea before we make assumptions about how many town were on MF's wagon.

[hthefourth]

Observations from MF's iso:

--Early jokevote for Tom--eyebrow momentarily raised. Tom had a rough first day and seems a good wagon for tomorrow.
--kgray accused MF of throwing shade on HR. The fact that MF took this argument (and offered a convincing last word) is townie points for HR.
--In fact, MF cast shade on a lot of people. The list (shades large and small): HR, Flum, summit, bozo (on principle?), foodcoats, flash, damo, macca, vecna, kgray, yaz.
--MF did not do the townread survey, and didn't townread much at all. He did townread kgray a lot, as early as page 15 and then in his last post before getting anvilized. It's unclear to me whether he meant to gain towncred by stating the obvious (kgray has looked just about as much like a concerned townsrabbit in the midst of a mafia crisis as I can imagine) or if he actually meant to bolster kgray's credibility as a faux-townsperson. Also townreads on durga.
--MF questioned wagons on Tom, foodcoats, bunny, worcej and kgray.

Props to town and especially rdrivera for sniffing out Yosemite Sam, who has now yee'd his last -haw.

[TrPrado]

I've seen people asking for top 4 reads, mine are:

1. Bozo. He's pulling a lot of information and seems to be doing something helpful.

2. Hellenic Riot. He's seeming very town-y (from what I've seen)

3. TrPrado. Not as much reason, but I'm getting good vibes.

4. Flum. They seem to doing something.

Why am I on this list?

Vibes

Incredibly fascinating, that is why you were on my list too

[rdrivera2005]

Yeah, maybe. I certainly felt better about my read knowing who was already voting him!

But this is my first time killing scum as town and I pretty much made the push at the end that got him killed, so I'm excited and am going to take some credit for it

I told my gut feelings are getting better.

Getting scum D1 is great, but also having a towncore is even better. Vecna, kgray, summit, damo and Flum are all town. Yav and Flash are probably town too.

What makes you think Flash is probably town?

I don't think scum will let them be cornered to two scum wagons on D1. To me is more likely Flash was a town counterwagon then another scum one.

[rdrivera2005]

FWIW, I would definitely not assume everyone is town just because they voted for him on D1.

I won't assume either, but I don't see me voting anyone on Moscow wagon the next days (maybe seth).

Why seth? I think he's looking pretty good after that EOD.

Where he happily jump on Yav and voted Moscow only after the kill was decided?
He is not on my top scum suspects, but it's the only one I don't have a townread on Moscow voters.

[bozotheclown]

I told my gut feelings are getting better.

Getting scum D1 is great, but also having a towncore is even better. Vecna, kgray, summit, damo and Flum are all town. Yav and Flash are probably town too.

What makes you think Flash is probably town?

I don't think scum will let them be cornered to two scum wagons on D1. To me is more likely Flash was a town counterwagon then another scum one.

I was voting for flash before MF had any votes, but BunnyGo, summit, and hthefourth voted for flash after MF had reached 4 votes. Then flash self voted, which now also looks like he could have been trying to save MF. Knowing flash's alignment would be helpful in understanding D1.

[BunnyGo]

I told my gut feelings are getting better.

Getting scum D1 is great, but also having a towncore is even better. Vecna, kgray, summit, damo and Flum are all town. Yav and Flash are probably town too.

What makes you think Flash is probably town?

I don't think scum will let them be cornered to two scum wagons on D1. To me is more likely Flash was a town counterwagon then another scum one.

Our wagons were:

Moscow, bozo, food, Macca

Then a flash wagon started

We got to

flash, Moscow, food, damo.

Why did we need a new counterwagon? Bozo and I certainly started it.

Then yavu showed up as a wagon. THIS seemed like the counter wagon to me. It was done by:

Seth, kgray, and Moscow.

Seth looks awful, kgray looks bad.

[summit_fever]

FWIW, I would definitely not assume everyone is town just because they voted for him on D1.

I won't assume either, but I don't see me voting anyone on Moscow wagon the next days (maybe seth).

Why seth? I think he's looking pretty good after that EOD.

Why does seth look good?

[kgray]

I won't assume either, but I don't see me voting anyone on Moscow wagon the next days (maybe seth).

Why seth? I think he's looking pretty good after that EOD.

Where he happily jump on Yav and voted Moscow only after the kill was decided?
He is not on my top scum suspects, but it's the only one I don't have a townread on Moscow voters.

I thought the way he jumped on the yav wagon was pretty townie, since he had the exact same reaction I did. I agree that it took a while for him to get off that wagon, but he did seem to actually go back and reread yavuzovic's posts thinking he'd caught scum.