M1015 - Super Mafioso Bros

[bozotheclown]

And then bozo leaves. Cool.

Riddle me this, bozo - why do you think that I as scum would think Jamie knows more about the BP than I do? If I am scum, I don't think Jamie knows more about the BP than I do because he is either my teammate and knows the same as me or town and knows less than me, OR he is actually the BP himself and does not know if the mafia team hit him, but I would, and therefore we now know also knows less than me.

The only thing that makes sense to me in the context of Jamie knowing more about the BP than I do and me trying to pry information out of him is if I am town and I scumread Jamie. That seems plausible, and in fact I am town and I do scumread Jamie. But you're voting for me, and usually votes are reserved for people that we haven't logically deduced are town.

I do not think you would "think Jamie knows more about the BP " as scum, but I think you might misrepresent it as scum.

So when I said late changed might make scum waste their vote on the daykill, I was being especially prescient

Oh! Good point. I was so annoyed at being wrong on Damo I didn't notice there was no Mafia kill! Well at least that's a silver lining.

Do we know there was no attempt at a kill?

What I found suspicious is that Jamie just said there was no mafia kill, but you asked him if we know there was no attempt at a kill, when Jamie did not say anything about there being no attempt, and the idea that the mafia would not attempt a kill did not seem like a reasonable possibility.

Do you believe Jamie did not notice there was no mafia kill until HR mentioned it? Do you believe HR thought that the mafia targeting damo was the most likely reason for no mafia kill?

When I read the D1 resolution message, my immediate reaction was that the mafia must have tried to kill the BP. Then, HR implied that the scum likely targeted damo and wasted their kill because of a "late change". Then, Jamie said he did not notice there was no mafia kill. Then, you seemed to indicate you thought that it was possible no kill was attempted. I found all of this suspicious, because all of it could be scum trying to look like they did not know they targeted the BP.

Looking at this again, HR looks even more suspicious, because I find it hard to believe he thought the mafia could have ended D1 with their kill on damo.

##VOTE HR

[bozotheclown]

"Mafia kill will be decided by majority vote. In the event of a tie, the newest vote will break the tie."

For damo to be the mafia kill target, 2 mafia would have to end the day voting for him, or if the three mafia were voting for different players, the last vote would have to be for damo. damo was tied for the lead or in the lead 5 hours before EOD until 51 minutes before EOD, and he was always at risk of the day kill for the last 51 minutes. All players except Macca posted in the last 30 minutes, and all players except Macca and myself posted in the last 5 minutes.

Considering this, I do not see how HR could realistically think the following:

So when I said late changed might make scum waste their vote on the daykill, I was being especially prescient

[bozotheclown]

I am town

##vote Ham

self preservation

see?

scummy af

Self-Preservation is not scummy.

If HB is scum then Vecna is a massive great scumread here, and Bo also looks pretty awful.

This may be true, but the observation also could be scum motivated if HB is town or scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

Why is nobody voting? It's not Night, remember, it's already D2.

I will ##VOTE HELLENIC RIOT while I catch up on the last couple of pages. My reason for voting him is based on his attempt to drive a mis-kill on me during D1. I've seen scum HR drive mis-hangings in recent history, and that's exactly what it felt like; he was using falsehoods to throw shade on a target (me) in the hope he would sound sincere enough he wouldn't come across as fake.

[Jamiet99uk]

Ugh, just now realizing through the vote log of how much damage I did by switching my vote from Jamie to Damo. Wouldn't have made a great deal of difference since Damo was clearly going to be the unlucky one as no count increased sufficiently.

Could you explain your thought process during your vote moves at EoD?

[Jamiet99uk]

Let's talk about me, Hellenic Riot, and our disagreement about Summit's D1 achievements, shall we?

So, on Page 6 I first suggested Summit was showing no interest in the game:

You know what isn't funny?

Bozo and Summit showing zero interest in this game.

Soon after this Damo voted for Summit and Rdrivera also called out Summit for non-participation.

I added my vote to Damo's, thinking Rdrivera might also join.

##vote summit

Summit's up

This is not how we do this.

Try @summit @summit @summit

No, the syntax is definitely ##VOTE SUMMIT

Some time later, I accused Summit of participating very little. (Which I still believe was a perfectly cromulent remark on my part):

Jamie's continual voting for post count over content in a short game could certainly be a concerted attempt to replicate his townplay rather than him playing this game in an objective and thus townie manner. I'm open to voting either him or HB atm

You'd have to get those wagons started. Is there a reason you aren't voting?

I bet one of you and Hellenic Riot is scum.

Why have you participated so little?

Summit responded and, since I had his attention, I continued to press him:

I bet one of you and Hellenic Riot is scum.

Why have you participated so little?

I'm not focussed on getting my post count up. Have you read my posts? Any thoughts?

Yes, I have read them, and I see very little of substance.

Do you feel you have helped town and searched for scum today?

Does not look like it to me.

Hellenic Riot then made this statement about me:

I don't believe Jamie is actually reading half the posts in this game now (seeing as he has no idea about what either me or Summit have posted, apparently), he's obsessing over a number on the Bot instead. This strikes me as exactly the sort of mechanical attempt to replicate his townplay that scum-Jamie would make.

Now, this is an important post in my opinion. I had just been pushing Summit for contributing very little of substance, not helping town search for scum. Hellenic Riot immediately responds and says that I have "no idea" what Summit has posted. I purport that a reasonable person, reading those remarks from Hellenic Riot, would conclude that HR was stongly implying that Summit *had* made a substantial contribution, and *had* been greatly helping Town's efforts.

I encourage you to re-read this exchange. Clearly HR implies that my impression of Summit is wrong and that I have missed important posts from Summit.

So, I responded to HR. I wanted to know what these super important Summit contributions were, that he was accusing me of not reading:

I don't believe Jamie is actually reading half the posts in this game now (seeing as he has no idea about what either me or Summit have posted, apparently), he's obsessing over a number on the Bot instead. This strikes me as exactly the sort of mechanical attempt to replicate his townplay that scum-Jamie would make.

I've read all of summit's posts.

Re-reading yours I do notice a couple of posts discussing your opinion of Macca, apart from which I believe my earlier summary remains fairly accurate.

You are deliberately mischaracterising me.

@HR please explain this brilliant town play you are seeing from Summit, that I have apparently not read?

Answer in the next 3 minutes please.

Now Hellenic Riot's position on Summit becomes rather strange. First he says to Vecna:

Can you explain to me why you wouldnt slide onto a summit wagon?

I know you and jamiet are talking about summit, but ive been pretty much zoning that shit out more or less.

I don't have any opinion on summit. He was consistent in his pushing of Macca earlier, but that's about all he's done.

What the fuck? HR is attacking me for daring to accuse Summit of not contributing much, and yet he tells Vecna he doesn't have an opinion on Summit, and apart from posting something about Macca, he hasn't done much?!?

These statements are wildly inconsistent.

And there was more:

Let me summarize:

I said Summit has contributed very little of substance

HR strenuously disagreed with this and accused me of not reading Summit's posts.

I asked HR what was so great about summit's posts that I had missed, and HR refused to explain.

"Strenuously" is really making a mountain out of a molehill. You didn't seem to know that he'd been pushing Macca. That is it.

Eureka! Apparently the "posts" from Summit that I had upset HR by ignoring, represented a "consistent push" on Macca.

Really?

Let's look back at Summit's "consistent" "push" on Macca. Are you ready? Here it is:

Feeling pretty good about damo and jamie. macca not so much.

##vote macca

Summit, why aren't you feeling "good" about Macca?

Macca, Summit has voted for you in what certainly looks like a vanity wagon at this point. Why do you think they don't have a "good" feeling about you?

Getting big M56 vibes.

As a response to a lot of the things leveled at me in the last 3 pages. I don't really know what I'm doing, and I do a lot of things for fun. Sorry I'm acting strangely. Please don't make the the D1 kill again. A 100% streak in that is not something I want to aim for.

A lot of his posts are strange, but Macca doesn't want to live because he's town--he wants to live because he doesn't want a 100% day 1 kill streak.

That's it. The whole thing. Two posts, in which he votes because of an unexplained "feeling", and then later says Macca's posts "are strange".

Wow, HR, that sure looks like a consistent push to me. Macca must have been in immediate fear of his life, with that intense grilling Summit was giving him. The Spanish Inquisition are pussycats compared with that super-aggressive "push" from Summit.

Yeah, no, but that's bullshit, isn't it? "I have a vague feeling about this person and their posts are strange" is not a "consistent push". Nah. Nada. Not buying it.

My conclusion remains that Hellenic Riot accused me of not reading Summit's posts as a way of throwing shade on me as a potential mis-kill. I think the summary above supports that view. HR is aggressive scum that likes to use lies and half-truths to push mis-kills.

[Vecna]

see?

scummy af

Self-Preservation is not scummy.

If HB is scum then Vecna is a massive great scumread here, and Bo also looks pretty awful.

This may be true, but the observation also could be scum motivated if HB is town or scum.

Great posting Bozo. I have some stronger points to add.

HR was actually posting about me being scummy for my manoevring around HB. Yet after the Nk failed he suddenly made no more mention of me.

[Vecna]

##vote HR

[rdrivera2005]

I would add that if HR is really scum I think Macca is also scum. Him disappearing when he got some pressure and coming back after EOD claiming Internet problems is something that could have been suggested on QT and HR reaction to Summit vote on Macca would be justified.

##vote HR

[Jamiet99uk]

If HR and Macca are scum together, that could also explain why HR made such over-blown remarks about Summit "pushing" Macca, to make it look as if Macca was getting more pressure than was actually the case. A form of bussing-by-proxy, if you will.

[TheMadMonarch]

I would add that if HR is really scum I think Macca is also scum. Him disappearing when he got some pressure and coming back after EOD claiming Internet problems is something that could have been suggested on QT and HR reaction to Summit vote on Macca would be justified.

##vote HR

I swear guys, my internet was out for a couple hours, but EOD is 8am in Brisbane, and since I'm not an early riser, and I have school to go to. Please don't expect me to be on in the 9 hours leading up to EOD ever. I'll do what I can on Sat and Sun mornings, but I'm just unavailable until I can get on at school around 9-10.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hi Macca.

What do you think about HR?

Did you feel that Summit_Fever was pressuring you hard yesterday?

[TheMadMonarch]

I haven't read anything yet, but after my post about Bozo, my interenet cut off. The bit about him not supporting the "massclaim" was a joke. I meant to say that it was, but that didn't happen.
I will begin to read now.

Do you have any new reads? Who is scummy? Who do you think is town?

I had originally not a good feeling about Bozo. This came form what seemed like more laid-back play he was doing. I comparison to the more aggressive, skilled townplay I've seen and heard him do in the past, it seemed suspicious.
His posting has however, gone up, and I'm feeling much better about him now. Especially after the detailed breakdowns he's given in the last couple of pages, which seem much more like the Bozo I espect.


My last read through has seen a lot of talk now about HR, and after going back over it, he is leaning towards scum.

For now:
##VOTE HR

[TheMadMonarch]

Hi Macca.

What do you think about HR?

Did you feel that Summit_Fever was pressuring you hard yesterday?

My suspicions are now thoroughly raised about HR, as in my above post.


Summit didn't seem to be throwing a huge amount my way, but I perfectly understand were he's coming from. My ignorance causes me to take strange actions, admittedly similar to M56 (although with even less knowledge this time), which could be a thing to be wary of.
He's not voting for me now and that's good.

[kgray]

If you are, I would not expect you to think Jamie knows more than you about the subject.

By this logic, if you're a town PR you should never make any mention at all of your role because you know more than other people and therefore asking them questions about you to probe their brain is needless.

I'll ask again - why do you think I'm not the BP?

If you are the BP and you thought the BP would be notified when hit, I could see your question from a BP perspective.

@bozo do you think bo is the BP?

[TheMadMonarch]

Do we know there was no attempt at a kill?

##VOTE bo_sox

Maybe I'm dumb, but why does this make you vote Bo_?

Bozo, you still haven't responded to this. I'm just interested.

[Jamiet99uk]

By this logic, if you're a town PR you should never make any mention at all of your role because you know more than other people and therefore asking them questions about you to probe their brain is needless.

I'll ask again - why do you think I'm not the BP?

If you are the BP and you thought the BP would be notified when hit, I could see your question from a BP perspective.

@bozo do you think bo is the BP?

We have only one PR.

Do you think it is a good idea to openly speculate about their identity?

[Vecna]

I would add that if HR is really scum I think Macca is also scum. Him disappearing when he got some pressure and coming back after EOD claiming Internet problems is something that could have been suggested on QT and HR reaction to Summit vote on Macca would be justified.

##vote HR

I swear guys, my internet was out for a couple hours, but EOD is 8am in Brisbane, and since I'm not an early riser, and I have school to go to. Please don't expect me to be on in the 9 hours leading up to EOD ever. I'll do what I can on Sat and Sun mornings, but I'm just unavailable until I can get on at school around 9-10.

ah ok, thats fair

[Vecna]

also, the truth's in the chorus

[Vecna]

my current scumpicks are HR and bozo

Not sure about the third.

Summit is a decent pick I guess