Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Jamiet99uk]

@Flash
@EMC
@Durga
@Damo
@Worcej

Would you like to participate today?

Thanks!

[xorxes]

xorxes - Had a negative read of him at first due to perceived mafia coaching but with him voting for Macca and being a PR I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as N2 will reveal all, or at least almost all.

This is the second time you've said this. Can you point out where you think I was coaching the mafia? Are you confusing me with worcej?

[xorxes]

I think I played with HR only in my first games and I just don't remember his meta. Do you think he will try to tie the vote on D1 instead of just letting Bozo be lynched if Bozo is town? People usually fear to tie the vote and after the tie someone usually untie one way or another and you can't predict which way. I just see HR as scum if Bozo is also scum.

It is not clear whether HR was aware or not that he was tying. Why would he want to tie it as town with only seconds left? It is not clear whether he was aware of how much time was left. The main question is whether he was willing to bus, and whether he had any better options. He could not believably vote for bozo there, and if he stayed out of it when everyone was consolidating it would have looked bad as well.

I could quite easily have just not posted in the last two minutes and let Bozo get lynched - And I wouldn't have looked any worse than the other 40% of players who didn't put a vote on either main wagon, including a number of people who were around at EoD (brainbomb and EMC come immediately to mind). I voted with a good 50 seconds to go which made it tied, and I had another tab open ready to change my vote to untie it if nobody else changed. As it happened, Damo also came in and changed his vote, and that was therefore unnecessary, much as I had hoped.

You know it's not true that you would not have looked any worse than others. An experienced player staying out of the fray does not look the same as an inexperienced one doing the same. And obviously someone who was there does not look the same as someone who wasn't. Brainbomb and emc definitely don't look good for where they ended up.

[xorxes]

I remember that xorxes and I used to deathtunnel each other repeatedly almost every game, and I'm amused to see that after two years away at least one of us looks to be maintaining that posture.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there are indications that point your way. It's not like there are too many other options. The main two things that point in your direction are macca's interactions with almost everyone else, and your read of Bob that seemed to ignore macca in a way that did not make much sense. Then your reaction of scumreading me just for having a different take than you on the best way to go about the claims.

I really don't get your fixation on this Bob thing. I called him out very early on because his leap to defence jarred from the tone of the rest of the game. I pushed him for a bit on it, made him squirm for a while, and then he claimed it was a joke that had clearly gone over my head... And that was that. I did not read a deeper meaning into it, and have not been throwing scumreads on Bob because of it at any point since, whereas you seem to be implying that I scumread Bob while ignoring Macca for it - Which I did not do. I shelved both.

The reason of my "fixation" on this is that I thought we were seeing that incident in pretty much the same way, and it turns out we were seeing it very differently. For me that incident put a strong link between Bob and macca, but for you, it didn't. For you it was only about Bob. I just don't see how Bob's reaction could be seen as suspicious without an association with macca.

As for who Macca interacted with, I had no desire to try and get blood out of a stone and so no, I did not try and needle him and then work out if his confusion was real or not. I suspect that Macca only interacted with people who initiated interaction with him, aside from apparently fearing anyone who gave out big lists of early reads. And I have no intention of trying to reread him and guess that he was actually some excellent scum player hiding behind a veil of fake confusion, when in all likelihood he was really just a confused noob who happened to be scum.

You don't think rereading a player that flipped scum is worth doing? Really?

But yes, I find it mildly galling that someone who very much led the massclaim in the first place is now against utilising the massclaim they themselves forced to actually give us some benefit. At this point, if we sit here not lynching a guilty report and not co-ordinating the scans for maximal effect, why did we even bother massclaiming at all? A job half-arsed is worse than a job not done.

We will lynch the guilty report tomorrow if it doesn't happen naturally today, that's not going to waste, don't worry. The coordination of the scans for maximal effect, if any, can be done at night. No need to waste the day on that. And if you still think it's vital we do it now, and you want to propose a plan of action, you don't need my approval to do it, so what's stopping you? It seems to me you want an excuse to scumread me and you don't want to say it's because I scumread you.

Who do you want to lynch today? Do you still think bozo is a bad lynch? Do you think Donny is the best lynch? What's the scummiest thing he has done? Anyone else? What are your thoughts on Durga, summit and rivera?

[xorxes]

Hellenic Riot - A lot of meta claims against him, but idk. Slight scum read I guess if I trust the majority, but I've never played with him. He did vote for Macca and claims VT. Bussing is a possibility, but idk. Let's say super slight scum read based on everyone else by I have no desire to vote for him for the time being unless it's him versus someone I feel is town late in a day.

What majority has made meta claims against HR?

Durga said some meta things about him. Possibly Vecna. Am I missing anyone else?

[brainbomb]

reading ISOs from bottom up Im seeing alot of apathy. Durga who lynched scum day1 is checked out of the game already. emc, damo, bob, worcej, bismark are all taking a phase off.

[Jamiet99uk]

xorxes - Had a negative read of him at first due to perceived mafia coaching but with him voting for Macca and being a PR I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as N2 will reveal all, or at least almost all.

This is the second time you've said this. Can you point out where you think I was coaching the mafia? Are you confusing me with worcej?

Do you think that Worcej was coaching the Mafia, Xorxes?

[brainbomb]

Alright, I fulfilled posting requirements. I start vacation tomorrow so I may see you again before EOD.

If not, at least I won't be subbed!

Well thats a valid reason

[brainbomb]

I have so many questions about emc and worcej. was the plan to pretend to scumread each other or was that real? worcej made it seemed like a plan worked last night. did emc specific claim to you in the chat?

[brainbomb]

seen a ton of theories that TRC was a PR but no one has suggested TRC was a vt claim, so scum killed there to generate a specific massclaim.

[damo666]

Updated "predictions":

bozo: Jamie, flash, Donny, rdrivera
Donny: Jamie, HR, damo, TFB
brainbomb: Donny, Jamie, rdrivera, summit
Jamie: bozo, Bob, flash, TFB
HR: Donny, brainbomb, Jamie, xorxes
rdrivera: Bob, Donny, Jamie, TFB, Durga
xorxes: HR, summit, Jamie, JF
summit: Donny, damo, flash, JF
TFB: Donny, Jamie, emc, HR
Bismarck: worcej, Donny, brainbomb, Bob
Vecna: emc, bismarck, bozo , _________

Why rdr 5?

My guess: Donny Durga EMC JF

[brainbomb]

do you think JF is actually playing? just lurking?

[BobMcBob]

I really have not had the time for this over the past couple of days, but a few more comments before I go to bed.
Donny looks really bad at this point. He backed off votes very quickly, he voted PR when he shouldn't've and his EoD behaviour was odd. I'd be very happy with a Donny lynch at this point.

HR's coordinating all scanners and revealing scoutmaster a horrible plan. I really cannot see the reasoning behind it, and he was corrected multiple times.

I'd like to put forces and Vecna heavily inside my town pool, they just both give off that vibe.

For my scumteam I think I'm gonna put Donny, Jamie and I'm honestly not sure about the other two, it'll be among Bismarck, emc, damo, bozo, HR. Or at least, those seven are the ones I'd like to lynch in. Bismarck's scumteam guess is appalling. Emc put on a poor show at EOD and worcej is against him. Out of the forces/HR clash, HR looks far worse. Jamie still looks bad from Chaqa's D1 performance. Donny is Donny. Damo's maths is awful and kicking off the massclaim with little support as a VT still stinks. Bozo's maths is horrible and his massclaim sucked, but he's looked a bit better recently.
##vote Donny

[xorxes]

xorxes - Had a negative read of him at first due to perceived mafia coaching but with him voting for Macca and being a PR I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as N2 will reveal all, or at least almost all.

This is the second time you've said this. Can you point out where you think I was coaching the mafia? Are you confusing me with worcej?

Do you think that Worcej was coaching the Mafia, Xorxes?

He was the one describing optimal mafia strategy in case of a massclaim, yes. I'm thinking he's town, though, mainly because of macca.

[brainbomb]

Okay, I skimmed this first 10 pages or so, nothing stuck out. I'll have to go back and +1 everything when I re-read it more later. That was a nice way of keeping track of my place.

I was joking originally, but ##Vote EMC

It's way out of character for him to actually vote, and as much as I love him, he's definitely not town if he's voting this early.

this seems like really poor reasoning. :think:

[brainbomb]

Chaqa looks rushed, angry, and despotic.

[xorxes]

seen a ton of theories that TRC was a PR but no one has suggested TRC was a vt claim, so scum killed there to generate a specific massclaim.

I did suggest that. I do think it's a possibility, but not something we will likely figure out before the full claims.

[brainbomb]

Im not seeing much else happening today. donny is a runaway lynch.
##End

[xorxes]

do you think JF is actually playing? just lurking?

He made a post pretty much saying he was quitting, and with a failed attempt to unvote.

[xorxes]

Im not seeing much else happening today. donny is a runaway lynch.
##End

We are not ending and thus preventing JF from being replaced.