Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Jamiet99uk]

Again - EMC is my buddy. I believe he is scum. The best way to test this, without being able to convince people with my words (because no one listens normally and the mass claim proved this once again) is to force the issue with mEcHaNiKz!
If EMC and myself do not die together tonight - he is scum.

Nonsense, if you are both town they could let you live to sow confusion with emc a likely mislynch. He then flips town and we all mistrust you.

You shouldn't have trod this path.

blah blah. blah. blah blah blah.

Get reckt, it's too late and I do what I want. I am a looooooooose cannon BrOsEf!

@,@

Yes but on this occasion Damo is right, Worcej.

Your theory regarding EMC falls down because if EMC is town, then you've actually given scum an incentive not to kill either of you, in the hope that you push his mislynch. Thus your assertion that "if EMC does not die, he is scum" is rubbish.

[worcej]

You are very active this game, Bob, especially at night. Why the change? I had a plumbing emergency at home...so this wasn't my highest priority. Not that I like to be especially active this early in the game anyway.

I know that both worcej and chaqa were both obstinate about the massclaim. I didn't like it either. Usually you get townclears from a massclaim, don't you? What townclears do we have now? Unfortunately once the massclaim started there was no stopping it.

I think worcej is his usual obstinate towny self. I don't believe worcej should have told us his partner, but again this is worcej being worcej. Chaqa's late move on the massclaim was definitely anti-town, but I can't see the scum motivation for it. It just made him a target and almost got himself lynched. If he is scum why would he take that risk, especially so early in the game?

Highlighted the key part here no one addressed until this post - we gained NO TOWN CLEARS from the claims. We just made two piles to simplify the kills to be made by the scum while town focuses on the VT pile for lynches.

And yeah, I am obstinate. I'll probably become less someday if people actually show they listen to what I am saying lol...

All we have to do is the PR claims and we have clears.

Great, so the scum can pick and choose their path to victory.

This is the problem ding-dong: the mass claim isn't working at full efficiency but we paid the price for it anyway. We still have an unknown claim because someone decided to join for the first time and peaced out after fulfilling the posting and vote requirements via two crap votes, eliminating the chance they can be subbed.

You have to guess what he/she/it is and will have to make uninformed assumptions about where scum actually are and how to proceed.

[worcej]

Nonsense, if you are both town they could let you live to sow confusion with emc a likely mislynch. He then flips town and we all mistrust you.

You shouldn't have trod this path.

blah blah. blah. blah blah blah.

Get reckt, it's too late and I do what I want. I am a looooooooose cannon BrOsEf!

@,@

Yes but on this occasion Damo is right, Worcej.

Your theory regarding EMC falls down because if EMC is town, then you've actually given scum an incentive not to kill either of you, in the hope that you push his mislynch. Thus your assertion that "if EMC does not die, he is scum" is rubbish.

Just because I claim he is scum, doesn't mean I will push his lynch if scum decide to be dumb about it and let us live. We're both in the PR pool - come get us if we're town!

Otherwise, my vote is going right back @ bozo for D2 - that mofo is scummmmmmmm!!!

[worcej]

My brain hurts just reading this tbh. You might be right but you can push emc without revealing this. You might be wrong and that would really... really suck. Why do you think mafia would target you both for sure? If I was mafia I'd go for xorx even if I could get you two. Especially since for some reason you've decided that we'll lynch emc if you're both alive next turn. Actually 0 reason to do this reveal.

My issue Durga that I've seen through countless games is when I push, no one listens. Scum chats even have mentioned "no one listens to worcej anyway" several times.

At what point do you just give up and decide to take the bull by the horns? I'm a go-getter. Let's see what happens.

And this will magically get people to listen to you? This is a collective game, people aren't gonna listen to you unless you're convincing. This is not convincing but actually contrary to how you convince people to vote your scum reads imo.

Okay Mom, thanks for the life lesson.

This community is full of ego-centric people that do nothing but do what they want and vote who they want.

I purposely pushed to keep xorxes alive in the end of the last game I was scum because I KNEW his ego would blind him, and it did.

[worcej]

My brain hurts just reading this tbh. You might be right but you can push emc without revealing this. You might be wrong and that would really... really suck. Why do you think mafia would target you both for sure? If I was mafia I'd go for xorx even if I could get you two. Especially since for some reason you've decided that we'll lynch emc if you're both alive next turn. Actually 0 reason to do this reveal.

My issue Durga that I've seen through countless games is when I push, no one listens. Scum chats even have mentioned "no one listens to worcej anyway" several times.

At what point do you just give up and decide to take the bull by the horns? I'm a go-getter. Let's see what happens.

The irony here, Worcej, is that you are complaining about not being listened to, and yet now you are not listening to people (such as me) who are telling you quite specifically, what is flawed about your theory.

Read our comments calmly, with love in your heart, and you may find them helpful.

My calm response: if scum choose to not kill emc and me now, then fine - the case on bozo is far more damning, but a bunch of toolbags want to keep him around because 'he is more valuable later'.

The scum can demonstrate they are a bunch of morons for blowing the chance to eliminate two PRs right away. It won't cause me to doubt anything.

[worcej]

Hey Bozo if you think people should claim their specific role at night, why don't you go first?

OK, I am a VT.

Also convenient for the case - bozo is in the pool of players we need to lynch in because that's the centerpiece of the strategy anyways!

[Jamiet99uk]

blah blah. blah. blah blah blah.

Get reckt, it's too late and I do what I want. I am a looooooooose cannon BrOsEf!

@,@

Yes but on this occasion Damo is right, Worcej.

Your theory regarding EMC falls down because if EMC is town, then you've actually given scum an incentive not to kill either of you, in the hope that you push his mislynch. Thus your assertion that "if EMC does not die, he is scum" is rubbish.

Just because I claim he is scum, doesn't mean I will push his lynch if scum decide to be dumb about it and let us live. We're both in the PR pool - come get us if we're town!

Otherwise, my vote is going right back @ bozo for D2 - that mofo is scummmmmmmm!!!

You loudly announced that if he didn't die it would prove he was scum.

You now appear to accept that you were wrong to assert such a thing.

Ok.

[worcej]

Is anybody else other than me concerned that Damo's math will have overlooked someone or could lead us down a lot of town sent home?
To me some of the math checks out but then based upon assumption.

This is why you don't listen to his math when it comes to pairs - it's all based on assumptions and is fluff/nonsense. He accomplishes the same with 'I think X is scum', which is his normal reads anyway.

When he does generic shit like 'chance of S-S pairs vs S-T', those are good numbers because the assumptions are not based on a person (therefor most likely not biased)

[worcej]

Yes but on this occasion Damo is right, Worcej.

Your theory regarding EMC falls down because if EMC is town, then you've actually given scum an incentive not to kill either of you, in the hope that you push his mislynch. Thus your assertion that "if EMC does not die, he is scum" is rubbish.

Just because I claim he is scum, doesn't mean I will push his lynch if scum decide to be dumb about it and let us live. We're both in the PR pool - come get us if we're town!

Otherwise, my vote is going right back @ bozo for D2 - that mofo is scummmmmmmm!!!

You loudly announced that if he didn't die it would prove he was scum.

You now appear to accept that you were wrong to assert such a thing.

Ok.

No, he's scum if he lives.

But the system we have via claims means we must lynch in the VT pool. If we don't do that, and we see people like bozo put votes in the PR pool, then they are hypocritical fucks.

[worcej]

oh donny, damo is our ferret. we let him run around shitting everywhere because hes very affectionate

So far Damo was the deciding vote in lynching scum over a tie, so for now Damo is bae (but then again, ive been incorrectly townreading him a lot recently)

Alright. I think Damo is town.

Damo is capable of bussing. Also SvS, he would pick bozo over the noob ANYDAY!

[worcej]

Lol worce, I'm not an inexperienced scum player by any standards, wouldn't think.

I do. You panic under pressure.

[worcej]

What would annoy me?

I'm perfectly calm, I'm just explaining to Worcej that his theory are not be as logical as he think it do.

I must've missed anything you tried to explain to me...

Do you need me to say it again?

Did you?

[Donny Dude]

Is anybody else other than me concerned that Damo's math will have overlooked someone or could lead us down a lot of town sent home?
To me some of the math checks out but then based upon assumption.

This is why you don't listen to his math when it comes to pairs - it's all based on assumptions and is fluff/nonsense. He accomplishes the same with 'I think X is scum', which is his normal reads anyway.

When he does generic shit like 'chance of S-S pairs vs S-T', those are good numbers because the assumptions are not based on a person (therefor most likely not biased)

K thank you.
I thought the math was iffy, but I will take the generic stuff as good info.

[xorxes]

I have not had time today for further analysis, so here's a summary of where I'm at in case I die tonight:

PRs:
townleans: Vecna, worcej, emc
null: flash, TFB, Bismark, JF
scumlean: Chamiet

VTs:
townleans: damo, bozo, Durga, brain
null: rivera, HR, Donny, summit
scumlean: Bob (however, I have to agree with bozo that the chat with macca is convincing. I need to reevaluate this one)

Other:
TRC

PRs should sort themselves out via claims/NKs, so we should focus on the VTs tomorrow unless there's PR info.

[Jamiet99uk]

I must've missed anything you tried to explain to me...

Do you need me to say it again?

Did you?

Yes, now. We've addressed it. And you remain wrong.

[worcej]

My issue Durga that I've seen through countless games is when I push, no one listens. Scum chats even have mentioned "no one listens to worcej anyway" several times.

At what point do you just give up and decide to take the bull by the horns? I'm a go-getter. Let's see what happens.

And this will magically get people to listen to you? This is a collective game, people aren't gonna listen to you unless you're convincing. This is not convincing but actually contrary to how you convince people to vote your scum reads imo.

Okay Mom, thanks for the life lesson.

This community is full of ego-centric people that do nothing but do what they want and vote who they want.

I purposely pushed to keep xorxes alive in the end of the last game I was scum because I KNEW his ego would blind him, and it did.

To expand: brain and bozo had us (damo and myself) dead to rights but xorxes voted along with us because he only focused on his opinion and not what was put in front of him.

This is the problem with the community as a whole - everyone just is like 'I like this and want this' when others are trying to explain why it may or may not be good. Look at how the mass claim happened? Players just forced the issue by claiming when there was not a consensus to do it to begin with and then we were 'forced'.

So to Damo, I say this: "Pot, Meet Kettle." You forced the claim, I forced the option to scum. DeAl WiTh It!

[worcej]

Do you need me to say it again?

Did you?

Yes, now. We've addressed it. And you remain wrong.

That's your opinion.

[worcej]

Awww yeah, 5 minutes until the DANGER ZONE BABY!

*insert the song you are now hearing in your head because you read the word 'danger zone'*

HIIIIIGHWAY TOoooo THEeeee DANGER ZONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[worcej]

I bet EMC isn't around to claim.

Wonder if it's cause he know he won't die...

[xorxes]

Also, in case I die, I am one of the cool guys.