Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Durga]

+ for all we know bozo was scum (although I feel it unlikely).

That being said Chaqa is more likely to rage quit this game as scum so..

[Vecna]

vecna why do you keep acting shocked by things I say.

this is you this game

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... UITk3Rk-vA

Ehm yeah. What does that tell you about the stuff you say?

[rdrivera2005]

Explain then. Why the heck is bozo focusing on the possibility that no scum bussed Macca when the odds are astronomically low?

Why the odds are astronomically low? Show them. Who do you think was bussing on the VTs?

Unless you have some info we don't have.

Well with if we go with straight chance and multiply our fractions, there's a 2% chance that no scum were on the Macca wagon. Add to that my (perhaps mistaken) assumption that D1 bussing is a thing people do and we get an astronomically low chance.

As for who, I'm not sure, I was talking general numbers and strats. Since you asked though, a cursory VCA (I don't know enough to do a particularly deep one) gives Hellenic, or potentially damp for tying purposes. I maintain that VCA is not the best way to go about this though, scum surely know how to vote to look better on it and I'm not exactly qualified to do it either.

I still don't get where this 2% came from. We can't even do a proper math analysis on this before TRC claim because we don't know how many scum we have on the VTs.
People buss on D1, I bussed people many times on D, people buss a lot on D1 but usually for a reason (distancing, look better). People do things for a reason, what is the reason for scum to buss Macca the way the lynch went in the last minutes?
Maybe there is a busser on Macca wagon, but I can bet there is no more then one and possibly zero.

[worcej]

Again - EMC is my buddy. I believe he is scum. The best way to test this, without being able to convince people with my words (because no one listens normally and the mass claim proved this once again) is to force the issue with mEcHaNiKz!
If EMC and myself do not die together tonight - he is scum.

[Vecna]

Im in favor of ending night discussion entirely. its not a thing most places

Most of those places also have day phases that last 2 weeks though

[brainbomb]

Im in favor of ending night discussion entirely. its not a thing most places

Most of those places also have day phases that last 2 weeks though

okay mafiascum is the only place that has that weird shit too lol

[Durga]

Again - EMC is my buddy. I believe he is scum. The best way to test this, without being able to convince people with my words (because no one listens normally and the mass claim proved this once again) is to force the issue with mEcHaNiKz!
If EMC and myself do not die together tonight - he is scum.

My brain hurts just reading this tbh. You might be right but you can push emc without revealing this. You might be wrong and that would really... really suck. Why do you think mafia would target you both for sure? If I was mafia I'd go for xorx even if I could get you two. Especially since for some reason you've decided that we'll lynch emc if you're both alive next turn. Actually 0 reason to do this reveal.

[Durga]

I hope this is some elaborate scheme to trick the mafia that I'm just too stupid to get

[Jamiet99uk]

I think the most damning thing about Chaqa was the totally unexplained vote on Bozo with about five minutes to go when it became clear that it was either Bozo or Macca on the block.

Is Chaqa making the wrong choice as town really that shocking? I think not

I cannot account for Chaqa's voting choices which are often bad as any alignment.

[Jamiet99uk]

+ for all we know bozo was scum (although I feel it unlikely).

That being said Chaqa is more likely to rage quit this game as scum so..

Why are you talking about Bozo in the past tense?

Has something happened to him?

[Vecna]

Its effectively making everything more difficult for most PRs and has a huge chance to blow up in his face. Classic Worcej.

The way to go about this wouldve just to wait untill he claimed his role, and push people to lynch him if there is a cc.

Scum in the PR claims are pretty dead anyway, so why risk two deaths over a potentially crappy read

[Jamiet99uk]

Again - EMC is my buddy. I believe he is scum. The best way to test this, without being able to convince people with my words (because no one listens normally and the mass claim proved this once again) is to force the issue with mEcHaNiKz!
If EMC and myself do not die together tonight - he is scum.

What do you want us to conclude if one of you dies, but not the other?

What if you and EMC are both town, and the scum decide to avoid killing either of you, specifically because this will apparently lead you to conclude that EMC must be scum and thus you will push his mislynch for them? It is N1 and the scum have many potential targets. Whether they do or do not choose to target EMC does not "mechanically" prove anything about his alignment, actually, does it?

I'm sorry Worcej, in this community I consider you a friend, but your theory that EMC is confirmed scum if you don't both die tonight is a lot of rubbish.

[worcej]

I don't like the Bozo vote because at this point I feel like if he were scum he'd have done something other than continue to spout crap about the massclaim even while the votes were piling up on him

This is probably the best point I've heard so far in bozo's defence. I dunno though, I'll deduct a few scumpoints for it.

Actually not really, bozo scum doesn't do much imho.

The value of town!bozo, from a 'vets' perspective, is he is good at figuring the game out in late game phase. He usually gets is spot on or damn close to right if he's near lylo. However, we should never give someone a free pass on D1.

Bozo's D1 was all about the mass claim. Putting issues with the concept of the claim in front of him didn't matter - he was all in.

rdr/xorxes/damo look the worst (to me) for just going with it. I'd expect more thought from all 3 of them before they just enabled the process.

[worcej]

I don't like the Bozo vote because at this point I feel like if he were scum he'd have done something other than continue to spout crap about the massclaim even while the votes were piling up on him

his problem as scum is he has a hard time coming up with genuine reads.

I told him to give genuine reads. Instead hes been robotic and true to his scum meta, and has been solely hiding behind the massclaim.

Also, theres that thing that quite a few people giving me the heebeejeebies are trying to dissuade us from wagoning him.

Okay, yeah, bozo can have his scumpoints back. This is another in the long list of things bozo has done wrong. He gave no actual reads all day, and his entire play was debate on the useless massclaim. At the very least bozo should start giving us actual reads.

He gave reads right near the EOD, some were meh to me.

[worcej]

Bob, Chaqa and worcej, I would say at this point. But worcej may be town.

You'll know tonight most likely.

The options for tonight are as follows:

1. EMC and I die, because I was wrong. LVP points for me.
2. Just I die, leading to some fun little gimmics about how EMC lived and will require exposure from the scum team to try to protect him.
3. Neither of us die, because EMC is scum and they're screwed now that I shoved this out into the open.

Or you're both town and they let you live .

Sure, but why would they?

[brainbomb]

Jamie, im suprised it would annoy you

[worcej]

Every person who criticizes me but doesn't explain the rationale behind the massclaim is just proving my point.

If it was so pro-town, you'd all have the reasoning lined up.

Someone let you all get distracted by this nonsense the entire first day.

To be fair, he's not wrong. Someone(s) did get us distracted by the massclaim all day. It wan't a particuarly productive one. But enough people had jumped on the massclaim boat that it had already set sail. Nobody I don't have scum on said it was pro-town to start with, but it happened anyway.

Why do you think D1 was not productive when we lynched a scum?

Do you think Macca was lynched because there was a case on him?

[brainbomb]

You'll know tonight most likely.

The options for tonight are as follows:

1. EMC and I die, because I was wrong. LVP points for me.
2. Just I die, leading to some fun little gimmics about how EMC lived and will require exposure from the scum team to try to protect him.
3. Neither of us die, because EMC is scum and they're screwed now that I shoved this out into the open.

Or you're both town and they let you live .

Sure, but why would they?

probably not worth speculating on as its wifom, but scum usually kills people who are:
●Threats to their future
●Possible PR
●Confirmed PR
●People playing well

[worcej]

VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, BobMcBob (9)

Macca573 (7): xorxes rdrivera2005 bozotheclown Durga summit_fever Hellenic Riot damo666

The overlap here is interesting. With at least 2 scum in the VT claims, possibly 3, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob are the only possibilities that would not have been bussing Macca.

Maybe the remaining scum are Jamie, TRC, brainbomb, and Bob.

Reasoning please? This makes absolutely no sense. This is just adding 7 and 9 to get 3. There is very likely at least one scum in the PR list, and not all the PRs voted for Macca. What are you even trying to say, and where is your logic? I can't make it out. And also what on earth did you plop that potential scumteam on the bottom for, it has no relevance to the rest of your post. Bozo has been highly inarticulate this game.

It does make sense

How?

[brainbomb]

To be fair, he's not wrong. Someone(s) did get us distracted by the massclaim all day. It wan't a particuarly productive one. But enough people had jumped on the massclaim boat that it had already set sail. Nobody I don't have scum on said it was pro-town to start with, but it happened anyway.

Why do you think D1 was not productive when we lynched a scum?

Do you think Macca was lynched because there was a case on him?

alot of times cases just get it wrong. A good old fashioned CFD cant be stopped, cant be argued for or against because its a surge of activity with chaos as its guide