Mafia XXXV - The WebDip Class Reunion

[thamrick]

@Bozo - rank the remaining players' scumminess

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo - rank the remaining players' scumminess

Ezio
bo_sox48
rdrivera2005
Pouncy Silverkitten
thamrick
dargorygel

[rdrivera2005]

The only PR left N3 was the oracle, and there is no need to RB a potential oracle when he is not the NK and has no chance of being lynched the next day because he is kidnapped. The only reason to RB bo_sox would be to switch nametags, and I do not see a reason to do that, especially since bo_sox would know he was RBed. Considering this, and the fact that bo_sox did not claim the RB initially, the RB claim is questionable enough that I think using the free lynch of bo_sox today is the best option.

If they thought Bo was the oracle, they could have RB'd Bo to keep him from getting DD from Foxy so that it would have been 5-3 with Foxy having an empty vote so really 4-3. They'd just need one wrong vote to get a mislynch and win.

This is an explanation I can accept. I don't believe Ezio is bussing Bo as he didn't bussed Xorxes that was an easy and obvious target. It works with my theory that Ezio counterclaim was an all in from the scum. They thought Bo was Oracle and they were wrong, the counterclaim is 50/50 on who get lynched. 50% chance to win the game isn't bad odds.

[dargorygel]

##CALL GM
When (hypothetically) one receives a notification of multiple events at EoD or EoN, would those notifications be one PM, or a separate PM for each notification?

[bozotheclown]

@rdrivera: Do you really think that is the most likely possibility? I agree that it is possible, but I think it is far from probable. If Ezio is not bussing bo_sox, then you and bo_sox are probably scum together.

[dargorygel]

Earlier, someone (Ezio?) claimed that Bo's lynch would be a free one. Assuming that meant that bo is, wearing the DD tag, less 'real' as far as vote counts. Having to do with autowin, probably.
...But I think that even a DD tagged person effects to totals for LYLO or MYLO. Consider: at the end, if there were three players left, one of them DD, with the other two players scum and not scum. When they vote, assuming they voted for each other, the result would be a (continuous) tie. With Scum not making their win conditions. So town would win. It is NO 'free' lynch.

As I said last night, bo MIGHT be scum. He MIGHT have lied. He might be scrambling. He might be laying in bed only because he doesn't have the strength to stand... (sorry)

But we KNOW Ezio or RDR lied. Let's figure THEM out. And Bo will still be there.

I am also particularly interested in this avenue because of the possibility of BOTH of them being scum.

[bozotheclown]

@dargorygel: Lynching bo_sox today make it lylo D6 if he is town instead of mylo if we lynch another scum. If we lynch bo_sox today and he is scum, it is still mylo D6. The benefit I see of lynching bo_sox today, besides the chance he is scum, is that it will give us some information on Ezio vs. rdrivera. If only one of Ezio and rdrivera are scum, we can't afford to lynch the wrong one today.

[dargorygel]

@bozo
Trying to flow with your reasoning... what does lynching bo teach us about rdr and ezio? I could see an information if we were lynching you... because you have had some interactions with them that your flip would make more clear. But I don't see bo's miss-lynch teaching us anything more than (as I believe you said) that there are still scum out there.

[bozotheclown]

@dargorygel: Ezio is arguing to lynch bo_sox this turn and says he does not believe bo_sox's RB claim, while rdrivera is arguing to lynch Ezio and seems to believe bo_sox's RB claim. Finding out if bo_sox is scum provides information on how to interpret their positions.

[dargorygel]

@bozo
Fair enough... thanks.

@rdrivera
@ezio
One of you lied. You each claim (of course) it is the other. Keeping in mind the differing chain of events that you are claiming (i.e. whether the first claim was the lie or the second... what the motivation for the fake claim was... etc.) can you give a timeline of what happened, iyo?

[rdrivera2005]

@bozo
Fair enough... thanks.

@rdrivera
@ezio
One of you lied. You each claim (of course) it is the other. Keeping in mind the differing chain of events that you are claiming (i.e. whether the first claim was the lie or the second... what the motivation for the fake claim was... etc.) can you give a timeline of what happened, iyo?

Dargo, I have explained many times what happened (and what I think happened). Let me try another time:

At beginning of D4 people start talking about mass peeking, I thought it's a good idea as it could give us info and pressure scum while BO tag haven't flipped. I asked the GM. I waited some minutes and didn't get an answer. Went to dinner and didn't get back to the game that night. At morning saw the answer and post it and also said I would be away for a tennis tournament. This is all facts.

Now what I imagine happened. Ezio saw that Durga was Oracle and not BO and that Xorxes will be lynched He never said he was peeking at least from what I remember. He decided to counterclaim me as a myslinch will be game over. I was a good target: some people scumread me, I have a role without powers and will be away most of the day.

But as you are pushing that I could be scum with Ezio, could you explain me how this makes sense if we are both scum?

[bo_sox48]

@dargorygel: Ezio is arguing to lynch bo_sox this turn and says he does not believe bo_sox's RB claim, while rdrivera is arguing to lynch Ezio and seems to believe bo_sox's RB claim. Finding out if bo_sox is scum provides information on how to interpret their positions.

How so?

[dargorygel]

@rdr
IF you are both scum it would have been an elaborate well orchestrated plan. You'd get some sort of award.
But you are both clever, experienced players.

[DemonRHK]

##CALL GM
When (hypothetically) one receives a notification of multiple events at EoD or EoN, would those notifications be one PM, or a separate PM for each notification?

##GM NOTE:

Player affected by actions at night are notified by PM, with the messages as laid out in the role doc. Delivery method, vector, and frequency are irrelevant.

[bo_sox48]

##CALL GM - two of my questions haven't been answered. While I was kidnapped, could I have spoken in a mafia QT? Does the player with a vote that doesn't count have the ability to endhammer or does that not count either?

[thamrick]

Honestly the question to the GMs about the PMs seems kinda breaky to me. I feel like they shouldn't have the role of confirming or denying a claim like that (Rule 6 maybe?) and shouldn't be asked to.

The rule document doesn't explicitly say separate PMs will be sent, fwiw.

Take Bo's claim for what you will.

I personally find it believable, and I don't see why Bo would carelessly and mistakenly claim goldfinger.

[bozotheclown]

@thamrick: Although bo_sox's claim is possible, I find the following things improbable: that bo_sox did not initially know he was RBed, that the kidnap and RB notifications would be in the same PM, that the mafia chose to RB bo_sox before kidnapping him. Taken together, I do not find bo_sox's claim very believable.

[bozotheclown]

It was Durga's idea to use the oracle to take the DD tag, and she made numerous references to the oracle, if the mafia suspected anyone to be the oracle they likely would have suspected Durga.

[rdrivera2005]

@thamrick: Although bo_sox's claim is possible, I find the following things improbable: that bo_sox did not initially know he was RBed, that the kidnap and RB notifications would be in the same PM, that the mafia chose to RB bo_sox before kidnapping him. Taken together, I do not find bo_sox's claim very believable.

You have some reason on this, it's unlikely, but not impossible.

But I also think that scum kidnapping another scum and willingly taking DD so close to a win is also unlikely, but not impossible.

What makes me believe more the first option is Ezio pushing the second one so hard. He is scum and his motivations are scummy. I don't understand how you don't see this if you put him on top of your scumlist.

[bozotheclown]

@dargorygel: Ezio is arguing to lynch bo_sox this turn and says he does not believe bo_sox's RB claim, while rdrivera is arguing to lynch Ezio and seems to believe bo_sox's RB claim. Finding out if bo_sox is scum provides information on how to interpret their positions.

How so?

At least one of Ezio or rdrivera is scum, so whoever is scum knows your alignment. If the remaining town also finds out your alignment, it can help us interpret how Ezio and rdrivera approached today.