MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Kitsune]

##CALL GM

To be clear, the value of C will affect the order of all wagons, not just the top wagon? If C is 2 and it makes the total vote count for a wagon 3, that wagon will be listed before a 2 vote wagon, where it would be listed after a 2 vote wagon if C is 0 and the total vote count for that wagon would be 1?

Correct.

##CALL GM

The Reader PM does not say when the Reader gets the result from their scan. Please can you clarify?

At the end of phase.

##call GM - if a player with the Companion role gets converted to a reaver, they cease to be a Companion. Does the Backup Companion get activated when the Companion role ceases to be in play, or when the player who was the Companion dies?

This information is present in the Backup Companion role description (not posted in public threads).

##CallGM: can a commuted player still talk in the game thread (and any QT they may be a part of?)

Yes.

##CallGM: If an Alliance member is converted to the Reavers, do they lose access to the Alliance QT? Is their team informed they no longer have accessed?

They do not, and their team is not informed of this.

[BunnyGo]

So as an aside, if you were reaver, wouldn't you reaver bunny on n1? For irony and helpfulness?

I agree. I think I was reaver target #1.

[BunnyGo]

This theme is great!

If you've not seen the show, this is exactly how things go down from time to time. Assertive captain. vig/hero going off the rails, the doc in disguise, first mate getting shot, reavers being generally terrifying.

If you've not seen the show, you should.

And charming and wise cracking pilot. Sexy and smart one too

[BunnyGo]

So as an aside, if you were reaver, wouldn't you reaver bunny on n1? For irony and helpfulness?

I agree. I think I was reaver target #1.

Or not...maybe ND was. He has disappeared today.

[BunnyGo]

So as an aside, if you were reaver, wouldn't you reaver bunny on n1? For irony and helpfulness?

I agree. I think I was reaver target #1.

Or not...maybe ND was. He has disappeared today.

This is why flipping worcej is so important. Yes he has a good chance of being BH. But could easily be RP too. Helps us stay on the hunt.

[Chaqa]

So as an aside, if you were reaver, wouldn't you reaver bunny on n1? For irony and helpfulness?

I agree. I think I was reaver target #1.

... how? So you admit to being a Reaver?

[Temasek22]

So as an aside, if you were reaver, wouldn't you reaver bunny on n1? For irony and helpfulness?

I agree. I think I was reaver target #1.

... how? So you admit to being a Reaver?

... He commuted?

[Temasek22]

Hosu and Kalel both have yet to say anything, and lynching the BH doesn't seem to be the best choice. I think the companion CC pool should be our target too.

[Temasek22]

##vote hosu

Knowing him, he probs got subbed into a scum role.

[Temasek22]

This theme is great!

If you've not seen the show, this is exactly how things go down from time to time. Assertive captain. vig/hero going off the rails, the doc in disguise, first mate getting shot, reavers being generally terrifying.

If you've not seen the show, you should.

I really wanted to. But the swearing in Chinese part would not go well with my roommates...

[Temasek22]

I could get caught up, but I don't see the point. This is my last post to the game (unless you spare me for some reason).

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" is the saying that will dominate the day. It makes the most sense and even I would push for it, so expecting you to believe me and spare me to get a win as BH is futile.

I'll go out with these words at the very least:

1. To Kit: Thank you for putting together a unique and cool looking setup. Being a GM is a reward and also a curse sometimes, so be proud of the game you've made because it is good. Like all things, you couldn't expect what has transpired. Don't take the rest of this post as a personal attack at you - I want you to keep GM'ing and making awesome setups like this down the road!
2. To the people who pushed for mass-claims: You're right in how you are playing: take advantage of the information you have and play for the win. I don't fault you for that. But I want you to understand that, for me, this game has not been fun. If that means nothing to you, I hope you evaluate something about yourselves at some point. I am not trying to be mean with that last bit, but reality is we play this to have fun. Forcing people to be mechanically eliminated on D2 is fundamentally breaking the spirit of this game and you should know that. And before you point out I pushed for the MC, think about it for a second: what could I do? If I pushed back, you would've just lumped me into the VTs and scumread me for not cooperating, just like you've done with Jamie, Kalel, and Goldie earlier in the phase.
3. Speaking further on the MC and my general thoughts on the game:
   • I was doomed from the moment the mass-claim became a discussion. The setup, unfortunately, puts the M1 team, BH, and RP into a shitty spot. RP can at least get out of it because you all decided to focus on scum in general without thinking about RP early enough.
   • There were too many PR's vs VT's to strike a balance for M1 or BH. The Twins should've just been VTs and then it would be 8 PR vs 12 VTs/Scum. That would've made claiming much less valuable and possibly stopped it from happening.
   • The BH needs a kill to be a threat. I assumed they had one when looking over the signup thread (I assume too much too often) and didn't pay much attention at the time to voice this issue.
   • Somewhat already said, but the real game is town vs reapers. And since mechanics dominates everyone's analysis and you all generally fail to read people, my money is on the reapers winning.

So GL, I look forward to the God Thread. M1, you're kinda fucked and should just try your best to get the reapers the ability to pull off the win. I'll enjoy watching that from the sidelines.

##vote worcej
##end

I respect worcej's opinions but I disagree that I should feel bad for pushing for a massclaim. Not doing what is best for my team in order to make someone else have a better chance of winning is not what I would call good play. Anyway, we can argue about this forever and we're not going to agree so I'll move on to my main point:

This post by worcej feels extremely genuine to me. I don't think he would involve the GM like that as a ploy to make us think that he is some other role than what he really is. If he really is going full blast with the bullshit in this way, hats off to him, but I very much doubt that is the case.

Yep. Feel bad for him.

[peterlund]

Surely if I was the Roleblocker, you'd be told that you lost your voting bonuses?

Is jamie trying to "town-slip" here pretending not to know how this works when the Captain gets RBed?

[xorxes]

Mafia and Reavers need BH dead to win.

Sorry Xorx! This is simply NOT TRUE.

Both Maf1 and Maf2 have the same text in their win-con "... and the Neutral has not yet won."

TOWN:
"You are part of the town and you win when both Mafia factions are eliminated and the Neutral has not yet won."

MAFIA:
"You are part of the Alliance and you win when both Town and Reaver factions are eliminated or cannot win and the Neutral has not yet won."

From a numbers perspective, the BH is just like another townie, except that the game ends if certain people are dead before them.

The Mafia team has to reduce the sum total of the other factions to the same number as them. The BH counts as another number against them. If town lynches the BH, Mafia is just as happy or happier than if town lynches one of their own.

The town has to eliminate the Mafia teams. From town's perspective BH is just like another townie, except not especially cooperative and with dangerous strings attached. But from a numbers perspective in facing the Mafia, they count as one more town.

bozo insists that lynching BH does not count as a mislynch, but that's semantics. It very much does count as a mislynch in terms of how many we got before LYLO.

Lynching someone strongly suspected of being BH when they are extremely far from their win condition, and when we have a way to detect if they were lying, and a way to detect when they become truly dangerous, is anti-town.

[Chaqa]

##vote hosu

Knowing him, he probs got subbed into a scum role.

This is dangerous. We need to make sure three no other wagons around 2 or 4 votes so xorxes’ test is foolproof

[xorxes]

Hosu and Kalel both have yet to say anything, and lynching the BH doesn't seem to be the best choice. I think the companion CC pool should be our target too.

Temasek, how come you are being so sensible this game? I approve, but I don't recognize you.

[peterlund]

If Rdrivera was NKed last night 1, did he possibly say something that was extra disturbing to Maf1, more than just claiming PR?

[xorxes]

Surely if I was the Roleblocker, you'd be told that you lost your voting bonuses?

Is jamie trying to "town-slip" here pretending not to know how this works when the Captain gets RBed?

My bet is he is trying to coach Hosuke in what he has to claim. He doesn't want Hosuke claiming something that the Companion should know can't be the case.

[Temasek22]

Hosu and Kalel both have yet to say anything, and lynching the BH doesn't seem to be the best choice. I think the companion CC pool should be our target too.

Temasek, how come you are being so sensible this game? I approve, but I don't recognize you.

Timezones. I am usually a quiet player no matter I'm town or scum.

[xorxes]

##vote hosu

Knowing him, he probs got subbed into a scum role.

This is dangerous. We need to make sure three no other wagons around 2 or 4 votes so xorxes’ test is foolproof

Why? As long as one wagon is at 2 and I'm alone, all other wagons don't matter, right?

[xorxes]

If Rdrivera was NKed last night 1, did he possibly say something that was extra disturbing to Maf1, more than just claiming PR?

The strongest hypothesis is that he was killed through his twin, because his twin drew the kill by crumbing Reader and then redirected the kill to him.