MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

Rethought.
Jamie would not reave xorxes. Xorxes always dies early.

We oughta vote to resolve companion.
I won't change yet though. Because there's a plan.
But I am less sure about the urgency of the plan.

I'd rather vote for kalel or hosuke.

I agree. I do not see Jamiet Reaving xorxes, which is why I think goldie is full of crap. Another reason not to waste a scan on Jamiet, when we have another way of verifying the whole situation (I will admit I wish I had come up with this idea... who came up with it?)

Resolving companion is not a terrible idea, but I think we need to start trying to work through our potential 7 lynches we need to do.

[peterlund]

it's possible, but verifiable though since we can check whether anyone actually gets commuted n2.

Please explain, how we can check if anyone gets commuted N2.

People commuted are informed they are commuted.

From the OP "This removes them from play for the remainder of the phase including any end of phase effects. Any effects targeting the commuted player including lynching and nightkills will be ineffective. No announcement will be made to explain this (although the player will be informed of the effect)."

It seems that the commuted player cannot talk during the rest of the phase, if I read this correctly. The player can claim "commuted" next phase I guess.

[Jamiet99uk]

I agree. I do not see Jamiet Reaving xorxes, which is why I think goldie is full of crap. Another reason not to waste a scan on Jamiet, when we have another way of verifying the whole situation (I will admit I wish I had come up with this idea... who came up with it?)

Believe it or not I think it was Peterlund.

[Chaqa]

Please explain, how we can check if anyone gets commuted N2.

People commuted are informed they are commuted.

From the OP "This removes them from play for the remainder of the phase including any end of phase effects. Any effects targeting the commuted player including lynching and nightkills will be ineffective. No announcement will be made to explain this (although the player will be informed of the effect)."

It seems that the commuted player cannot talk during the rest of the phase, if I read this correctly. The player can claim "commuted" next phase I guess.

The role doesn't strictly say they cannot talk. Curious.

##CallGM: can a commuted player still talk in the game thread (and any QT they may be a part of?)

[peterlund]

From the OP "This removes them from play for the remainder of the phase including any end of phase effects. Any effects targeting the commuted player including lynching and nightkills will be ineffective. No announcement will be made to explain this (although the player will be informed of the effect)."

It seems that the commuted player cannot talk during the rest of the phase, if I read this correctly. The player can claim "commuted" next phase I guess.

The role doesn't strictly say they cannot talk. Curious.

##CallGM: can a commuted player still talk in the game thread (and any QT they may be a part of?)

Now it is 19:46 since Tom Bombadil said anything. Maybe Tom was commuted this phase Day 2.

[Chaqa]

I can't see any logical reason to do so. Tom typically has long breaks in posting.

@peter - what do you think of my analysis of two paths forward? I don't think, based on Bozo's earlier analysis, we can afford many mislynches, and we should at least hold off potential mislynches until we've eliminated all known scum. Do you agree?

[peterlund]

@Confirmed PRs - what do you think of what I was saying earlier?

Do we prefer to maximize information, or minimize mislynches? The two have quite different, but both promising, paths forward. See below:

---------------------------
Minimize Mislynches
---------------------------
Step 1: Lynch worcej. We know, barring anything else, that he is not town. He claims BH, but could be RP or M1, so by lynching him, we wipe out an enemy, regardless, and one who if we decide to leave alive long-term could be a threat depending on night-kills. (Side note - did everyone forget he claimed to have an inno scan om Temasek? Is this just WIFOM?)

Step 2: Implement the xorxes plan. If xorxes still has his +C votes, this informs us that Jamiet is Doctor. If he does not, then we know Jamiet is either RP or scum. Regardless of which, it would be prudent to roleblock/commute him, then lynch him.

Step 3: Scan a VT, or a Companion CC. I think I would tend toward a VT here. The Companion CC is always a 50/50, whereas the VT pool is a 1/3 right now, so we can increase our odds by sorting one out.

Outlook:
Day 2: lynch worcej. Scan VT or Companion CC
Night 2: based on xorxes vote count, RB Jamie/Goldie. Commute damo (VERY IMPORTANT).
Day 3: lynch Jamiet or Goldie. If Damo get another scan.

---------------------------
Maximize Info:
---------------------------
Step 1: Lynch Hosuke or Kalel. There's good arguments to either one. Regardless, we have a 50/50 on killing scum, and if we miss, we activate the backup Companion and have a definite lynch the next day.

Step 2: Implement xorxes plan.

Step 3: Scan a VT. Same benefits as above.

Outlook:
Day 2: lynch Kalel/Hosuke. Scan VT.
Night 2: same as above
Day 3: same as above

I do not really know what "Xorxe's plan" is. Does he have one? I would like to Lynch Worcej first because I do not believe he is the BH, but instead something more interesting.

Also I think we are doing this Xorxes +2 test too early. The Reavers are not yet done recruiting. After this Day 3 when the Reaver recruiting probably is done then is the time to test Xorxes abilities.

[Tom Bombadil]

I can't see any logical reason to do so. Tom typically has long breaks in posting.

@peter - what do you think of my analysis of two paths forward? I don't think, based on Bozo's earlier analysis, we can afford many mislynches, and we should at least hold off potential mislynches until we've eliminated all known scum. Do you agree?

I’m around and haven’t been commuted or anything. Just been dealing with some IRL issues - will get back to it soon

[Chaqa]

The "xorxes plan" is simply to have xorxes self-vote or vote for someone else, have a two-vote wagon, and a main wagon, and see if xorxes' wagon he is on slots in above the two-vote wagon or below it. Kitsune said that his wagon would not represent the count, but would appear in the proper order based on the amount of votes he had.

The nice thing about this test is it is continuous. If xorxes ever fails or refuses to do it, we know he's been Reaver'd. Essentially, we've protected him from conversion from hereon out.

[xorxes]

Also I think we are doing this Xorxes +2 test too early. The Reavers are not yet done recruiting. After this Day 3 when the Reaver recruiting probably is done then is the time to test Xorxes abilities.

We need to do it today in order to figure out which one of Jamiet/goldie is the real Doc.

If I have my powers intact, Jamie is the Doc (or the Investigator, although this is highly unlikely). If I lost my powers, Jamiet is the roleblocker (or the Reaver, although this is highly unlikely, and I know is not the case).

[peterlund]

The "xorxes plan" is simply to have xorxes self-vote or vote for someone else, have a two-vote wagon, and a main wagon, and see if xorxes' wagon he is on slots in above the two-vote wagon or below it. Kitsune said that his wagon would not represent the count, but would appear in the proper order based on the amount of votes he had.

The nice thing about this test is it is continuous. If xorxes ever fails or refuses to do it, we know he's been Reaver'd. Essentially, we've protected him from conversion from hereon out.

I agree with Darg, that I do not think that reaver!Jamie would ever try to recruit Xorxes since Reaver!Jamie would not expect Xorxes to survive that long, when xorxes is the Maf1 target. Jamie must have been there doing something else like "doc"ing Xorxes. I think we should lynch Goldie the doc CC.

Both Worcej and Goldie are great lynches to find dangerous scummies.

[Chaqa]

At what point do we consider ending the phase?

[Chaqa]

The "xorxes plan" is simply to have xorxes self-vote or vote for someone else, have a two-vote wagon, and a main wagon, and see if xorxes' wagon he is on slots in above the two-vote wagon or below it. Kitsune said that his wagon would not represent the count, but would appear in the proper order based on the amount of votes he had.

The nice thing about this test is it is continuous. If xorxes ever fails or refuses to do it, we know he's been Reaver'd. Essentially, we've protected him from conversion from hereon out.

I agree with Darg, that I do not think that reaver!Jamie would ever try to recruit Xorxes since Reaver!Jamie would not expect Xorxes to survive that long, when xorxes is the Maf1 target. Jamie must have been there doing something else like "doc"ing Xorxes. I think we should lynch Goldie the doc CC.

Both Worcej and Goldie are great lynches to find dangerous scummies.

It's a triplel-use test:
1. It lets us know if Jamie is Reaver OR
2. It lets us know if Jamie is Roleblocker
AND
3. It lets us continuously protect xorxes from being Reaver'd.

[teacon7]

At what point do we consider ending the phase?

I'd love to hear from Itshosuke and Kalel.
Tom should weigh in.
emc needs time to read up and post.

we might consider quieting down so they have less to reread

[Chaqa]

At what point do we consider ending the phase?

I'd love to hear from Itshosuke and Kalel.
Tom should weigh in.
emc needs time to read up and post.

we might consider quieting down so they have less to reread

https://tenor.com/9Io3.gif

[xorxes]

I could get caught up, but I don't see the point. This is my last post to the game (unless you spare me for some reason).

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" is the saying that will dominate the day. It makes the most sense and even I would push for it, so expecting you to believe me and spare me to get a win as BH is futile.

I'll go out with these words at the very least:

1. To Kit: Thank you for putting together a unique and cool looking setup. Being a GM is a reward and also a curse sometimes, so be proud of the game you've made because it is good. Like all things, you couldn't expect what has transpired. Don't take the rest of this post as a personal attack at you - I want you to keep GM'ing and making awesome setups like this down the road!
2. To the people who pushed for mass-claims: You're right in how you are playing: take advantage of the information you have and play for the win. I don't fault you for that. But I want you to understand that, for me, this game has not been fun. If that means nothing to you, I hope you evaluate something about yourselves at some point. I am not trying to be mean with that last bit, but reality is we play this to have fun. Forcing people to be mechanically eliminated on D2 is fundamentally breaking the spirit of this game and you should know that. And before you point out I pushed for the MC, think about it for a second: what could I do? If I pushed back, you would've just lumped me into the VTs and scumread me for not cooperating, just like you've done with Jamie, Kalel, and Goldie earlier in the phase.
3. Speaking further on the MC and my general thoughts on the game:
   • I was doomed from the moment the mass-claim became a discussion. The setup, unfortunately, puts the M1 team, BH, and RP into a shitty spot. RP can at least get out of it because you all decided to focus on scum in general without thinking about RP early enough.
   • There were too many PR's vs VT's to strike a balance for M1 or BH. The Twins should've just been VTs and then it would be 8 PR vs 12 VTs/Scum. That would've made claiming much less valuable and possibly stopped it from happening.
   • The BH needs a kill to be a threat. I assumed they had one when looking over the signup thread (I assume too much too often) and didn't pay much attention at the time to voice this issue.
   • Somewhat already said, but the real game is town vs reapers. And since mechanics dominates everyone's analysis and you all generally fail to read people, my money is on the reapers winning.

So GL, I look forward to the God Thread. M1, you're kinda fucked and should just try your best to get the reapers the ability to pull off the win. I'll enjoy watching that from the sidelines.

##vote worcej
##end

I respect worcej's opinions but I disagree that I should feel bad for pushing for a massclaim. Not doing what is best for my team in order to make someone else have a better chance of winning is not what I would call good play. Anyway, we can argue about this forever and we're not going to agree so I'll move on to my main point:

This post by worcej feels extremely genuine to me. I don't think he would involve the GM like that as a ploy to make us think that he is some other role than what he really is. If he really is going full blast with the bullshit in this way, hats off to him, but I very much doubt that is the case.

[goldfinger0303]

Sigh. Jamiet CC'd *me* , not the other way around. I had softclaimed and was waiting from permission from the powers that be, when Jamiet went ahead and claimed.

Also, I agree it's highly unlikely Jamiet is reaper. Customs would have a high incentive to roleblock xorxes though, given the position scum teammates would be in during D2.

Also, for all of those who are like "the reaper would never hit xorxes" don't you think that's also a valid reason why the real doc wouldn't protect xorxes? Like, you're halfway there, just go the next step.

[teacon7]

https://tenor.com/9Io3.gif

I was gonna save this to snark at xorxes, but to your captain america reference I raise you:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/ab/24 ... c31a2b.jpg

[peterlund]

It's a triplel-use test:
1. It lets us know if Jamie is Reaver OR
2. It lets us know if Jamie is Roleblocker
AND
3. It lets us continuously protect xorxes from being Reaver'd.

But 2. is a more likely option than Reaver. Jamie could have been "CUSTOMS" (maf1 RB) that visited Xorx in order to remove his +2 ability for Day 2, and then Jamie could as a backup plan claim Doc. It is more probable that Jamie is Customs than Reaver.

[xorxes]

At what point do we consider ending the phase?

At no point.

You're so scummy Chaqa. Did ND reavered you?