MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

Why is it weird? I was simply answering Demon's question.

I didn't see Demon question on the moment I answer (it was just a quick answer under a feeling I had while reading, almost a joke, like "it will be funny if Damo is on the other team and scumsliped"). And my scumread on you was because of your overreaction on me.

Ok. Can we drop this now? FWIW I'm pretty neutral on you.

Ok. I also have stronger scumreads and I don't believe you were Bob partner, which decrease the chances of you being scum.

[BionicMole]

Sorry, what?

You don't want to see one of them flip sooner rather than later? You don't care to figure out why one is lying?

I mean, in general we have 6/21 odds of finding a scum. Right now, I give it 1/2 between them. And the other is Jeckyl that many (INCLUDING BOTH CHAQ AND ND) believe is no big loss to town to lose.

You’re advocating risking a mislynch of a town or in a multimafia game. The lying member is a member of one of those teams, and conversely can’t harm town until N3. There is not a reason to waste a lynch when it isn’t needed yet. Shit, I said day one jekell and Hyde was A day three lynch

In addition, if kills happen N2, and we send the guilty party to the rope, they will have the option (dear both scum teams, hear me out) of revealing who their team killed to town to try to help catch the other scumteam.

Yes. Yes I am. If you think our lynch rate is going to be 100%, then I have some bad news for you.

On the other hand, we can learn something big here. We can dig their ISOs, their arguments, etc. And somebody is lying.

Why would scum ever want to sort this out for us? They want Jeckyl around. They want the other scum around until town thins out.

I second what Bunny says. We lynch either one of these guys and we know who is lying and can gain Intel and more avenues to gain more Intel. We let them off the hook and only more confusion is the result. Lets solve this on step at a time, and the next step is to clear up this ND, Chaqa mess.

[dargorygel]

Chaqa:
a) Could be doing this as scum. This would have been more likely if he was trying to divert from Bob's lynch, and decided (maybe he's a goon) that the trade would be worth it. Thinking that his claim would draw out the real JH. Chaqa is smarter and more strategier than this.
b) Could be doing it for kicks. He randed VT and thought this would be a bit of fun chaos to add to the game.

ND
a) Could be doing this as scum. He prizes himself as the best scum ever. So maybe he is trying a super scum scam. Again, this makes more sense if he outed to SAVE Bob. But waiting until AFTER doesn't seem as likely to me.
b) Could be doing it for kicks. This is within ND's normal range of behavior. Missing a couple of games and coming back with a BANG.

BOTH of these could be doing it to catch the real J/H. Maybe they both drew VT and thought, "I'ma gonna catch J/H."

And while it is really tinfoil-hat... they might both be scum. Maybe even on the same team.

But this morning, I believe Chaqa is a or b... and I lean towards b.

[Temasek22]

Chaqa:
a) Could be doing this as scum. This would have been more likely if he was trying to divert from Bob's lynch, and decided (maybe he's a goon) that the trade would be worth it. Thinking that his claim would draw out the real JH. Chaqa is smarter and more strategier than this.
b) Could be doing it for kicks. He randed VT and thought this would be a bit of fun chaos to add to the game.

ND
a) Could be doing this as scum. He prizes himself as the best scum ever. So maybe he is trying a super scum scam. Again, this makes more sense if he outed to SAVE Bob. But waiting until AFTER doesn't seem as likely to me.
b) Could be doing it for kicks. This is within ND's normal range of behavior. Missing a couple of games and coming back with a BANG.

BOTH of these could be doing it to catch the real J/H. Maybe they both drew VT and thought, "I'ma gonna catch J/H."

And while it is really tinfoil-hat... they might both be scum. Maybe even on the same team.

But this morning, I believe Chaqa is a or b... and I lean towards b.

Yeah, I'm fairly new but could see them doing this sort of thing.

My guess is one of them will drop their claim before EoD2

[purplecow]

I didn’t think to mention the message that Hyde didn’t kill because it was obvious that no one died. Come on now, you can do better than that, ND.

If I were fake claiming, why wouldn’t Hyde have just killed ME?

ND is full of crap.

Did you get targeted last night?

Can you be more specific?

My best bet is that Hyde targeted me, which was protected by my self-heal. As to why he would do this... I have no idea.

Hyde didn't do it because there was no reason. If they kill Jekyll then Hyde loses too.

##Vote Chaqa

[purplecow]

I was going to ask what you meant as well. I am still not following who you think I was trying to get lynched.

Computer_Genius was my preferred lynch among the three top wagons. When emc voted with three minutes left the vote was Vapor 5 Bob 5 Computer 4. I waited to see if anyone would change their vote. With one minute left and the vote still tied between Vapor and Bob, I changed my vote to Vapor to break the tie, as I thought he was more likely to be scum between the two. When I posted my vote and the thread refreshed, purple and xorxes had both voted for Bob. Since I knew Bob was then ahead, I switched my vote back to Computer to reduce the risk of another tie while indicating Computer was my preferred lynch.

So you werent refreshing like crazy? And how are you going to excuse literally everything else you said? I dont believe in going off of meta, because then people can hide behind it, and thats probably exactly what you are doing right now, and with everything else?
##vote bozo

I was refreshing to see if anyone voted to break the tie resulting from emc's vote. purple and xorxes must have voted within seconds of each other and myself, because all three voted showed up at the same time form my perspective. purple and xorxes can probably confirm that our votes were very close in time.

Yes the votes were close.

[Temasek22]

I think if neither are J/H, it could be likely that they are on Moriaty's team and this is some sort of last ditch gambit. However this is most likely J/H vs scum

[purplecow]

Did you get targeted last night?

Can you be more specific?

My best bet is that Hyde targeted me, which was protected by my self-heal. As to why he would do this... I have no idea.

Hyde didn't do it because there was no reason. If they kill Jekyll then Hyde loses too.

##Vote Chaqa

Wait ignore what I said. But I'll still vote Chaqa

[DemonRHK]

I’m going to say this again:

YOU ARE ALL VOTING TO 50/50 A DOCTOR ROLE WHEN WE DO NOT NEED TO. THIS IS A DAY 3 LYNCH, NOT A DAY 2.

Damo is shooting up my scumreads, I’m really happy n frost. I advocate anyone with at least half a brain staying away from this ND/Chaqa shit to read and consider a frost wagon.

[dargorygel]

I’m going to say this again:

YOU ARE ALL VOTING TO 50/50 A DOCTOR ROLE WHEN WE DO NOT NEED TO. THIS IS A DAY 3 LYNCH, NOT A DAY 2.

Damo is shooting up my scumreads, I’m really happy n frost. I advocate anyone with at least half a brain staying away from this ND/Chaqa shit to read and consider a frost wagon.

This is only true if we are guaranteed to hot JH on our first try. It might take us two lynches.

[Tom Bombadil]

It’s not 50/50. It’s only 50/50 if you don’t want to put thought into who you believe is being truthful.

[Chaqa]

Alright, I had hoped to get literally everyone to weigh in, but I doubt we'll hear from EMC for a few more hours, so this is good enough I guess. To begin and get the important thing out of the way:

I am not Dr. Jekyll. I was not saved. I was not roleblocked.

Many of you have deduced this, mainly due to ND's unfortunate counterclaim, but the ruse wasn't planned to go on forever. I had laid out my basic plan in a message to the God QT a few days ago, but basically:

I find the early stages of the game to be full of chaos, bad logic, joke posting, and general disorder. I also usually get myself widely scumread and/or lynched early on. So, I wanted to come up with a plan that let me get some utility out of my (lack of a) role, while also ensuring I could kickstart this game in some way.

Unfortunately, due to still being a bit sick and having a long-ass work day (I didn't get home until 5:55 my time - 5 minutes before EoD. Normally done at 3 or 4) I was unable to be a town leader. Still, despite that, and despite me almost leading us off Bob, we got Moriarity. So, overall, Day 1 worked our spectacularly, despite me.

I made sure to loudly proclaim I was saving myself, with the hope that based on previous ways I had handled myself as a PR, mafia wouldn't believe me and would target me last night. In the Endgame-themed game, when I was given the Mind Stone, I had claimed to give it to someone else, but kept it myself for another night. I was thinking by doing something similar here, I could draw the nightkill because if any mafia had played with me before, they would think I may be bluffing and attack me. Both teams, if I'm lucky.

Of course, this didn't happen - mafia attacked ND. Which, TBH, I find quite odd. I suppose they, like I, thought he was Sherlock, or at least softing Sherlock (I even calledND out as Mr. Holmes at one point). ND, however, played like a boss and protected himself - and ALSO drew the roleblock, which is... well, I still find it odd, but knowing he must actually be Jekyll, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyway - going into Day 2, with NO kills, I wasn't quite sure how to proceed. I hadn't planned this far, but at this point I thought:
1. Jekyll or Watson or both had made saves, or the Commuter got hit
2. The real Jekyll, if attacked, was likely to come forward

Up to this point, I had been operating on the assumption that Dr. Jekyll knew I was trying to protect him and/or draw night-kills (mainly the latter). More on this later, but with ND outing himself, my gameplan changed:

Now - the plan was to stick to my guns and see who believed who. My reasoning is:
ND must have protected himself Night 1, and mafia know this. Therefore, mafia know he will be vulnerable to a kill tonight. They also would likely think that the other Jekyll claimant (me) is either an opposing mafia member, Jack, or a towny - basicsally all great lynch targets. So... mafia would likely NOT side with me, but would instead prefer to lynch me, a towny, and then have a great kill option in ND tonight.

(They may also decide to abstain from this completely in order to ensure a lack of town information)

I *thought* ND was picking up on what I was doing, but the more the day went on, the worse it got, and it became apparent he didn't understand, so I doubled down in the hopes of REALLY getting people to pick a side and perhaps have mafia members give themselves away.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't really taken the time to analyze all the believers/doubters of the two claims yet. We have about 30 hours to do that now and come up with our best plan. Much like ND - I really did and do think Jekyll is a liability long-term, so I wouldn't even be against lynching me today to prove my claim/plan and then letting town sort things out down the line.

I'm hoping we can use this combined with the Moriarty flip and any other information Sherlock or others come up with to solve this game in record time.

I hope I covered a lot of what I was thinking/why I did this. I'm sure there will be questions.

##Unvote

[FlaviusAetius]

What are your first impressions after seeing the role you got?
And do you think Vapor handled it well?

@bo_sox same question to you

My impressions are that I am the role I was given, and Vapor handled my role extremely well even though he didn’t know it. Thanks for asking such a finely tuned, worthwhile question.

Here it is @bunny

bump

[rdrivera2005]

I kinda thought Chaqa could be covering to real Jekill on D1, but after not backing off from the claim after ND's claim it looked scummy (scum trying to get rid of a Doc and off a NK that could hurt them).

Chaqa, why you didn't back off after Vecna's claim? This explanation you want to see the votes looks really weak, it's look like you want to first see if you can get ND lynched.

[Chaqa]

I kinda thought Chaqa could be covering to real Jekill on D1, but after not backing off from the claim after ND's claim it looked scummy (scum trying to get rid of a Doc and off a NK that could hurt them).

Chaqa, why you didn't back off after Vecna's claim? This explanation you want to see the votes looks really weak, it's look like you want to first see if you can get ND lynched.

What did Vecna claim?

As for why I didn't back off - I explained that. Once ND had claimed (which I didn't expect), the damage of "outing" him (not really since mafia already knew he had been protected) was done, and as I said, I wanted to see who would believe who because *mafia already knew which one of us was lying.

* - at least one mafia team, or both if Watson/Commuter didn't block a kill

[ND]

##unend

I need to consider what chaqa just said.

[purplecow]

I'm just going to ##Unvote. I don't know if I believe Chaqa but the reason I voted was bad and I probably should have retracted sooner.

[rdrivera2005]

I kinda thought Chaqa could be covering to real Jekill on D1, but after not backing off from the claim after ND's claim it looked scummy (scum trying to get rid of a Doc and off a NK that could hurt them).

Chaqa, why you didn't back off after Vecna's claim? This explanation you want to see the votes looks really weak, it's look like you want to first see if you can get ND lynched.

What did Vecna claim?

As for why I didn't back off - I explained that. Once ND had claimed (which I didn't expect), the damage of "outing" him (not really since mafia already knew he had been protected) was done, and as I said, I wanted to see who would believe who because *mafia already knew which one of us was lying.

* - at least one mafia team, or both if Watson/Commuter didn't block a kill

ND's claim, Vecna didn't claim anything as far as I know.

You have a point on Mafia already knowing who were lying, at least 3 of them.

##unvote

[FlaviusAetius]

Which makes me wonder why he was targetted in the first place, but now that he has there is no way they are letting him save himself again, they are going to try to kill him this is a fact, so theres LITERALLY no reason to go after a potential Jekyll, just ignore both

Wrong. Why should they kill either? They'd rather leave the town confused. Make *us* waste our lynch on both. Better for them to go hunting among the rest of us they don't know.

Also, if it gets to tomorrow and both are alive...then what?

No no no. We *must* lynch Chaq or ND today. I currently consider any other stance SAI.

Why would literally all the NKers waste their NK N1 and then not make sure its not wasted N2? It doesnt make sense to me, their going to kill Dr. Jekyll N2, lets kill whoever is left Chaqa/ND D3, simple dimples

[FlaviusAetius]

On an hour and a half to sober up on a bus ride home I realize my GM calls were fucking dumb and jack didn’t get a chance to kill last night. I’m an idiot.

Conversely, anyone voting ND or Chaqa right now is FUCKING STUPID.

Hyde doesn’t kill N2. Make the scum sort that shit out.

I do not see why we can count on the mafia to take care of this.

obviously they think jekyll and hyde is so risky that he must be offed, so why do the work for them?