Is it time to make Porn illegal

Any political discussion should go here. This subforum will be moderated differently than other forums.
Forum rules
1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
Message
Author
User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Is it time to make Porn illegal

#1 Post by Fluminator » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm

Look, I like freedom, but is there a single good thing the porn industry has ever done ever?

I'm literally not trolling this time, I genuinely believe this. Porn should be outlawed. The abuse behind the industry, the damage it does to developing minds, the sexualization of people, the trafficking, and now deepfakes sexualizing people without their consent, and more is just the tip of the iceberg.

I know males are going to come in saying "but we want to normalize sex work for the women who want to do it, stop being such a prude. Who are you to dictate what women do" and to which I respond "shut the hell up, if you're actually concerned about that, maybe don't support an industry that currently abuses them."
2

User avatar
flash2015
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 3200
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 1155
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#2 Post by flash2015 » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:52 pm

Define porn. I don't believe everyone's definition of "porn" is the same.
1

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#3 Post by Fluminator » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:54 pm

whatever it is that's currently on pornhub

User avatar
worcej
Posts: 11357
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:39 am
Location: Washington
Karma: 6663
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#4 Post by worcej » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:17 am

Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
Look, I like freedom, but is there a single good thing the porn industry has ever done ever?
It made me learn I am a boob guy and not an ass man early in life.

User avatar
worcej
Posts: 11357
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:39 am
Location: Washington
Karma: 6663
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#5 Post by worcej » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:20 am

In all seriousness, I think the fact OnlyFans has gained all this traction and the likes of PornHub have taken the “value” out of the dark side of the porn industry.

And I think if you just outright banned it, the concerns you bring up about trafficking and abuse would only get worse because it would be maintained by criminals. Humans are always going to be horny.

User avatar
worcej
Posts: 11357
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:39 am
Location: Washington
Karma: 6663
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#6 Post by worcej » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:24 am

Also, for curiosity, does your ban of porn also effect animated porn like Hentai or computer modeling?

User avatar
Chaqa
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 13199
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:33 pm
Location: Allentown, PA, USA
Karma: 7964
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#7 Post by Chaqa » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:45 am

Eh, I'm more of an analog guy.

Octavious
Posts: 3837
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2595
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#8 Post by Octavious » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:36 pm

Illegal doesn't work. What you can do is regulate the life out of it. Insist on obvious wearing of condoms for "health and safety", make the buying of it extremely awkward to "protect minors", insist that all US based porn studios employ an advisor on gender equality and dignity in the workplace to give "guidance" on what may or may not be suitable and be present during all filming etc etc

The native industry would soon collapse leaving only foreign stuff, but as that means the exploitation happens primarily to other people it is a win of sorts.
1
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

User avatar
Doom427
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 1101
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#9 Post by Doom427 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:36 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
Look, I like freedom, but is there a single good thing the porn industry has ever done ever?
The joke during the old feminist sex wars was that in Porn you can see women lawyers, doctors, and CEOs, and they even get to end the movie with a happy ending. That's something.
Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
I'm literally not trolling this time, I genuinely believe this. Porn should be outlawed. The abuse behind the industry, the damage it does to developing minds, the sexualization of people, the trafficking, and now deepfakes sexualizing people without their consent, and more is just the tip of the iceberg.
But what's the difference between the abuse in the porn industry and the abuse of all industry?

And damage? We really need to define what the damage is. If the damage is being "sex-addicted", well, I much prefer that then the alternative of those same developing minds not knowing what sex is ever until their parents get them married off totally ignorant of what they actually want and desire. Porn at least allows some level of experimentation.

"sexualization" as far as porn goes isn't a real problem- A woman selling sexy pictures online has very little relation to the asshole on the street honking at me when I walk by. If we aren't outlawing the asshole for "sexualization", why outlaw the woman getting a few bucks from it?

Trafficking is bad. Luckly for us, Trafficking is in fact, already illegal :oil: :oil: :oil:

And deep fakes has very little relation to "outlawing" porn. What would a ban on porn even do to effect deep fakes? They already exist in a gray-zone legally speaking. I guess if you ban porn you couldn't do a deep fake porn... but there are other ways to sexualizing someone besides obviously explicit porn through deep fakes. So unless we're making bikini photos and gym wear illegal I have no clue what this would do.
Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
I know males are going to come in saying "but we want to normalize sex work for the women who want to do it, stop being such a prude. Who are you to dictate what women do" and to which I respond "shut the hell up, if you're actually concerned about that, maybe don't support an industry that currently abuses them."
But this argument applies to EVERY industry that women are accepted in. This can be said about Women in the military (who are abused, and abuse others, to a degree higher than porn). It can also be said about my job working under a female CEO- all workers are exploited. Sure, I'm not having as bad a time as I probably would in sex work, but the issues of sexual assault and trafficking are not unique to porn- most trafficking is construction after all. Will we make that illegal?

If we make porn illegal because women are abused in that industry, why are we not making starbucks baristaing illegal because women are abused in THAT industry as well?
3

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#10 Post by Fluminator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:38 pm

worcej wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:20 am
In all seriousness, I think the fact OnlyFans has gained all this traction and the likes of PornHub have taken the “value” out of the dark side of the porn industry.

And I think if you just outright banned it, the concerns you bring up about trafficking and abuse would only get worse because it would be maintained by criminals. Humans are always going to be horny.
Fair points, human trafficking is probably one of the worst problems society faces, and I do wonder if fighting that issue needs to happen first to have any hope of stopping porn.
Octavious wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:36 pm
Illegal doesn't work. What you can do is regulate the life out of it. Insist on obvious wearing of condoms for "health and safety", make the buying of it extremely awkward to "protect minors", insist that all US based porn studios employ an advisor on gender equality and dignity in the workplace to give "guidance" on what may or may not be suitable and be present during all filming etc etc

The native industry would soon collapse leaving only foreign stuff, but as that means the exploitation happens primarily to other people it is a win of sorts.
I like the idea of making it more awkward. Like we should probably bring back public shaming about people who watch this. I'm not endorsing bullying or harassments, but we need values as a society beyond "everything's okay, you do you I won't judge". We do need to start judging people more.

EDIT: Doom ninja, will read through your post
1

Octavious
Posts: 3837
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2595
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#11 Post by Octavious » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:20 pm

As much as Doom makes some interesting comments regarding this, I very much think we should avoid making the sex industry equivalent to other industries, because it simply isn't.

Germany came close to falling into this trap a few years back, when prostitution was legalised and an effort was made to treat it like any other workplace to reduce the stigma for those who worked in it.

At the same time they were pushing the idea that people on job seeker benefits should take whatever viable work was on offer or they would have their benefits taken away.

Thankfully, before hilarity ensued, good sense prevailed and no one was forced to enter the sex industry (although certain newspapers got very excited by the possibility and indulged in some fantasy reporting). Because, at the end of the day, the sex industry is different and everybody understands it at a fundamental level
1
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

User avatar
Doom427
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 1101
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#12 Post by Doom427 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:55 pm

I'll ignore some of the silliness in Octavious using a made up story from the British Press that never happened and never was going to happen, and address the broader point about the sex industry being different.

I'm willing to admit that yes, the sex industry is "different" in some nebulous liberal queasiness way. But the major reason why German labor offices don't put prostitution (and we'll count porn here too) jobs in front of people is due to the belief that it isn't "reasonable" to expect them to accept.

But when I look up bad jobs that pay well, I found quite a few jobs that should not be expected of someone on unemployment-

Garbage Collector
Executioner (lol, could you imagine being asked to kill someone)
Horse and bovine semen collector (I guess that might count as sex work too, if we think any urologist is a sex worker)
Sewage worker
Oil Rig worker
Undertaker

And hell, Truck Driver too. None of these jobs are things that can reasonably be expected to be accepted by someone on unemployment or else their benefits are cut.
1

User avatar
Doom427
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 am
Karma: 1101
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#13 Post by Doom427 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm

Also no one should be forced to work anyway, unemployment benefits shouldn't require taking a job.
1

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29114
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18115
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#14 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:38 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
Look, I like freedom, but is there a single good thing the porn industry has ever done ever?

I'm literally not trolling this time, I genuinely believe this. Porn should be outlawed. The abuse behind the industry, the damage it does to developing minds, the sexualization of people, the trafficking, and now deepfakes sexualizing people without their consent, and more is just the tip of the iceberg.
As others have noted, these things are already illegal in most developed countries. They don't need to be outlawed; they are already outlawed. Perhaps in some cases more attention and effort needs to be devoted to enforcing the law, but that's a different question.
1
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29114
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18115
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#15 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:57 pm

worcej wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:20 am
In all seriousness, I think the fact OnlyFans has gained all this traction and the likes of PornHub have taken the “value” out of the dark side of the porn industry.
I think there's some truth in this. At the risk of being one of those "males" Fluminator predicted wouldn't entirely agree with him, I can say that I personally know several women (at least seven on a quick mental count) who have an OnlyFans. I know this because all of them have spoken openly to me about it at one time or another. From what I know (and in some cases, have seen) the content they post varies from the tastefully erotic to the clearly, explicitly, pornographic. I'm also fairly confident I could say that none of them would have had much enthusiasm for getting involved in the "traditional" porn industry.
1
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

User avatar
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 29114
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 18115
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#16 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:59 pm

Also totally endorse what Doom is saying here. Thanks Doom.
1
There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen. - Lenin.

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#17 Post by Fluminator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:17 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:36 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
I'm literally not trolling this time, I genuinely believe this. Porn should be outlawed. The abuse behind the industry, the damage it does to developing minds, the sexualization of people, the trafficking, and now deepfakes sexualizing people without their consent, and more is just the tip of the iceberg.
But what's the difference between the abuse in the porn industry and the abuse of all industry?

And damage? We really need to define what the damage is. If the damage is being "sex-addicted", well, I much prefer that then the alternative of those same developing minds not knowing what sex is ever until their parents get them married off totally ignorant of what they actually want and desire. Porn at least allows some level of experimentation.

"sexualization" as far as porn goes isn't a real problem- A woman selling sexy pictures online has very little relation to the asshole on the street honking at me when I walk by. If we aren't outlawing the asshole for "sexualization", why outlaw the woman getting a few bucks from it?

Trafficking is bad. Luckly for us, Trafficking is in fact, already illegal :oil: :oil: :oil:

And deep fakes has very little relation to "outlawing" porn. What would a ban on porn even do to effect deep fakes? They already exist in a gray-zone legally speaking. I guess if you ban porn you couldn't do a deep fake porn... but there are other ways to sexualizing someone besides obviously explicit porn through deep fakes. So unless we're making bikini photos and gym wear illegal I have no clue what this would do.
I mean, we can go into how every every capitalist industry views people as commodities and abuses them, and yes most industries are evil, but they can at least provide objectively good things to benefit society. Is it really a bad thing if there's no industry that trains partakers to view people as sexual objects.

I respect the opinion that porn is needed to provide people with sex-ed, but from what I've heard from testimonies of ex-porn addicts and sex workers, porn is getting more and more violent, abusive, and I don't really think it's the best thing for young kids to be using for sex-ed.

Onlyfans is perhaps a less abusive method of porn, I could see an argument to let that stay legal, but any form of pimping out other people should basically be banned.

Trafficking and deepfakes may be illegal, but they thrive because people don't care because they want their porn whatever the source. I get that the more strict you are in outlawing these, the more underground and dangerous it will go, but I want it to be more dangerous for them. I want the pimps to be so underground that they can't even show their face to sunlight without getting taken out. At least the victims can know society is trying to protect them then.
Doom427 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:36 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
I know males are going to come in saying "but we want to normalize sex work for the women who want to do it, stop being such a prude. Who are you to dictate what women do" and to which I respond "shut the hell up, if you're actually concerned about that, maybe don't support an industry that currently abuses them."
But this argument applies to EVERY industry that women are accepted in. This can be said about Women in the military (who are abused, and abuse others, to a degree higher than porn). It can also be said about my job working under a female CEO- all workers are exploited. Sure, I'm not having as bad a time as I probably would in sex work, but the issues of sexual assault and trafficking are not unique to porn- most trafficking is construction after all. Will we make that illegal?

If we make porn illegal because women are abused in that industry, why are we not making starbucks baristaing illegal because women are abused in THAT industry as well?
You're just complaining about capitalism here (which are valid complaints) but that's like saying "why should we treat cashiers with respect when society doesn't ever treat mailmen, waitresses, and bus drivers with respect?
1

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#18 Post by Fluminator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:21 pm

worcej wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:24 am
Also, for curiosity, does your ban of porn also effect animated porn like Hentai or computer modeling?
Also fair point, I haven't considered anime or that tentacle stuff. That might be a porn that doesn't actively abuse people to the extent real life porn does and could see arguments for keeping that legal.

But a large portion of people who watch anime or use it as their avatar or make it their personality are somewhat creepy or ill-adjusted (and not all, but many are often vaguely pedophilic) so I'm not sure it's the best for their mind either. I'm not super well-versed on anime's affects so I'm open to correction here.
1

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#19 Post by Fluminator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:24 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:56 pm
Also no one should be forced to work anyway, unemployment benefits shouldn't require taking a job.
With the rate robots are developing, that reality might be closer than we think!

User avatar
Fluminator
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 3305
Contact:

Re: Is it time to make Porn illegal

#20 Post by Fluminator » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:29 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:38 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:32 pm
Look, I like freedom, but is there a single good thing the porn industry has ever done ever?

I'm literally not trolling this time, I genuinely believe this. Porn should be outlawed. The abuse behind the industry, the damage it does to developing minds, the sexualization of people, the trafficking, and now deepfakes sexualizing people without their consent, and more is just the tip of the iceberg.
As others have noted, these things are already illegal in most developed countries. They don't need to be outlawed; they are already outlawed. Perhaps in some cases more attention and effort needs to be devoted to enforcing the law, but that's a different question.
Fair enough, agreed. I think more effort to enforcing it is going after the moral grey areas like the massive porn sites that are indirectly funded by stuff like this.
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:57 pm
worcej wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:20 am
In all seriousness, I think the fact OnlyFans has gained all this traction and the likes of PornHub have taken the “value” out of the dark side of the porn industry.
I think there's some truth in this. At the risk of being one of those "males" Fluminator predicted wouldn't entirely agree with him, I can say that I personally know several women (at least seven on a quick mental count) who have an OnlyFans. I know this because all of them have spoken openly to me about it at one time or another. From what I know (and in some cases, have seen) the content they post varies from the tastefully erotic to the clearly, explicitly, pornographic. I'm also fairly confident I could say that none of them would have had much enthusiasm for getting involved in the "traditional" porn industry.
I admittedly need to learn more about onlyfans. I know a lot of people say this is the solution to making porn ethical so I'd have to look into it more. Would you be willing to fight with me to make other porn like the site "pornhub" illegal?
Even just recently they were advertising companies that created deepfakes of women who did not consent at all.
1

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests