Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

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worcej
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#81 Post by worcej » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:57 pm

Shocking no one in this thread.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

I don't feel great, but I also don't think the world ended either. Just kind of meh...

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#82 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:28 pm

I think it's sickening, quite frankly.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#83 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:30 pm

Millions of women have just lost the right to safe abortions, at a stroke. The world has not ended, Worcej, but your country just got a lot more painful and nasty for women to live in.

Abortions are healthcare.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#84 Post by Octavious » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:56 pm

Pretty grim reading. It's hard to disagree with the reasoning behind it, but as problematic as Roe v Wade was it was nevertheless a sticking plaster that served a purpose. Without it the world becomes significantly worse for a lot of people.

Still, this sort of radical policy shift is what you get when both sides of the debate are spearheaded by ideologues with no interest in finding a compromise. The pro choice extremists carry just as much responsibility for this as the pro life side, and should hang their heads in shame.
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#85 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:00 pm

Way to set back social progress 50 years, America.

Think of all the embryos that will now be forcibly born so they can grow up to be shot dead at elementary school instead.

Good job.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#86 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:29 pm

What will be next for the Land of the Free?

A ban on birth control?

A ban on homosexuality?

What else do rabid white "Christians" think God wants them to hate?

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#87 Post by Chaqa » Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:49 pm

They aren't even a majority, they're just very strategically placed and rabid as hell.

Sigh.
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flash2015
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#88 Post by flash2015 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:39 pm

I think we can overstate the importance of this decision. This doesn't ban abortion in any way shape or form. All it does is not stop states from banning abortion.

The thing that set the US back 50 years was Roe vs. Wade itself. It stopped the process of gradually loosening abortion restrictions that happened organically in other Western countries over the last 50 years (e.g. in Australia for example WA decriminalized abortion in 1998 and South Australia only in 2021). As Alito said in the judgement "And far from bringing about a national settlement of the abortion issue, Roe and Casey have enflamed debate and deepened division." At least on this point he is 100% right.

It is going to be terribly painful for a while in some of these states...but over the longer term (next couple of decades) things will get better.

If people actually care about this stuff their vote now matters more than ever. States which lean conservative have some of the lowest voter participation rates. If people care about issues like this and can't be bothered to vote, then they only have themselves to blame.
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#89 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:03 pm

A former partner (and continued good friend) of mine, who miscarried a pregnancy whilst in a long term relationship with me, put her view on this more eloquently than I could, and I quote her here with her indulgence:

"Awful news from America. Some people are pro-life and anti-liberty up to the moment of birth, and after that the order is dramatically reversed.

"I was against controlling women’s reproductive choices before I got pregnant, but only in a rather abstract principled way. When I experienced what early pregnancy, pregnancy loss, and carrying a baby full term were like, my feelings about this got stronger.

"I can entirely understand how some people think that foetuses have moral status. For what it’s worth, I’m not fully convinced that they don’t. But the idea that you can forcibly compel another person to endure extreme pain, fatigue, and serious physical and psychological risk to sustain another life is horrifying.

"There are people who support these changes who are unwilling to give up their prized collection of guns, some of which are entirely useless for hunting and entirely superfluous for self-defence, to save the lives of children. Yet they’re more than happy to put other people, against their will, through extreme pain and danger to ensure that babies are born.

"They are pro-hyperemesis, pro-heartburn, pro-sciatica, pro-prolapse, pro-incontinence, pro-DVT, pro-HELLP, pro-eclampsia, pro-stroke, pro-organ failure, pro-diabetes, pro-haemorrhage, pro-coma, pro-depression and pro-psychosis."


I have a lot of female friends. Many of them are expressing horror and revulsion at this decision. Some of them are also fearful. Fearful that the UK may go a similar way, given the corrupt right wing government we currently have in this country.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#90 Post by Randomizer » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:54 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:29 pm
What will be next for the Land of the Free?

A ban on birth control?

A ban on homosexuality?

What else do rabid white "Christians" think God wants them to hate?
Read Judge Thomas opinion in the case and he considered all those and same -sex marriages to be valid cases to be considered and reversed on the same grounds.

No word on whether he would ban mixed race marriages like his.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#91 Post by orathaic » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:49 am

I think we can overstate the importance of this decision. This doesn't ban abortion in any way shape or form. All it does is not stop states from banning abortion.
I'm pretty sure that actually, No. Several states already have laws on the books which ban abortions, but only on condition that Roe be overturned. That is laws which have actually changes as a result of this decision.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#92 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:36 am

orathaic wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:49 am
I think we can overstate the importance of this decision. This doesn't ban abortion in any way shape or form. All it does is not stop states from banning abortion.
I'm pretty sure that actually, No. Several states already have laws on the books which ban abortions, but only on condition that Roe be overturned. That is laws which have actually changes as a result of this decision.
I am well aware of this. But that is a state thing, nothing to do with the Supreme court.
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#93 Post by worcej » Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:52 am

I think the media has destroyed much of the publics understanding of what just happened. I feel that many people have been led to believe that SCOTUS just made abortion illegal. All they really did was hand the decision back to the states. Constituents of each state have a greater level of local control through their voting, so in theory this ahould better align abortion rights with the local population (yes, I know that this won't benefit everyone, meaning your states abortion rights may not suit your preference).

Ultimately, if this is a large enough issue and your states laws don't align with your beliefs, you can move to a state that aligns with your view. Not to necro a separate topic, but I am met with this same rationale by Democrats when it comes to gun control and that States should be able to do whatever they want. It comes off as talking out both sides of their mouth in order to benefit themselves.

In general, Congress has been utilizing SCOTUS to legislate when it isn’t their fucking job and it’s pretty despicable that our midterm elections are going to sharply only focus on abortion now.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#94 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:49 am

If you want to read the actual opinion, here it is:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/2 ... 2_6j37.pdf

With all the concurring and dissenting opinions, it's 213 pages.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#95 Post by orathaic » Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:39 am

". All they really did was hand the decision back to the states."

Which makes abortion illegal. That the media misses this nuance isn't really much of a problem.

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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#96 Post by worcej » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:15 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:39 am
". All they really did was hand the decision back to the states."

Which makes abortion illegal. That the media misses this nuance isn't really much of a problem.
Technically it doesn't do what you're describing in all instances and only does so if the state in question passed a law to do so.

My issue at heart is everyone is blaming the Supreme Court for this, when in actuality I am more upset at Congress for continuously "legislating through the bench" instead of doing their own job and passing laws. Congress could've established this as law of the land in the 50 years since Roe was established in order to definitively establish what abortion should be like in the USA, but they never did. The reason, in my opinion, that they did not was because it would require politicians to expose themselves and possibly ruin their chance to be re-elected based off the position they take. It shouldn't be unknown to people in this subforum that politicians in the USA only care about one thing, and that's getting re-elected.

That being said, to the European folks here, is abortion legal in your country due to laws or was it established based off court interpretation with no laws on the books (AKA: Roe V Wade)?

My gut says it was legislated through your governments lawmaking bodies, but I am ignorant on if this is true or not.
Last edited by worcej on Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#97 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:17 pm

Randomizer wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:54 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:29 pm
What will be next for the Land of the Free?

A ban on birth control?

A ban on homosexuality?

What else do rabid white "Christians" think God wants them to hate?
Read Judge Thomas opinion in the case and he considered all those and same -sex marriages to be valid cases to be considered and reversed on the same grounds.

No word on whether he would ban mixed race marriages like his.
What a bunch of sick fucks.

worcej
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#98 Post by worcej » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:18 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:17 pm
Randomizer wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:54 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 5:29 pm
What will be next for the Land of the Free?

A ban on birth control?

A ban on homosexuality?

What else do rabid white "Christians" think God wants them to hate?
Read Judge Thomas opinion in the case and he considered all those and same -sex marriages to be valid cases to be considered and reversed on the same grounds.

No word on whether he would ban mixed race marriages like his.
What a bunch of sick fucks.
FWIW, Thomas is a 'sick fuck'.
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#99 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:20 pm

worcej wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:15 pm
orathaic wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:39 am
". All they really did was hand the decision back to the states."

Which makes abortion illegal. That the media misses this nuance isn't really much of a problem.
Technically it doesn't do what you're describing in all instances and only does so if the state in question passed a law to do so.

My issue at heart is everyone is blaming the Supreme Court for this, when in actuality I am more upset at Congress for continuously "legislating through the bench" instead of doing their own job and passing laws. Congress could've established this as law of the land in the 50 years since Roe was established in order to definitively establish what abortion should be like in the USA, but they never did. The reason, in my opinion, that they did not was because it would require politicians to expose themselves and possibly ruin their chance to be re-elected based off the position they take. It shouldn't be unknown to people in this subforum that politicians in the USA only care about one thing, and that's getting re-elected.

That being said, to the European folks here, is abortion legal in your country due to laws or was it established based off court interpretation with no laws on the books (AKA: Roe V Wade)?

My gut says it was legislated through your governments lawmaking bodies, but I am ignorant on if this is true or not.
In the UK, legal access to free and safe abortions has been widely available since 1967 due to a law, passed by our Parliament - specifically the Abortion Act 1967.

I would love to see your US Congress pass similar legislation. I assume they won't.
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worcej
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Re: Roe v. Wade SCOTUS Opinion leak confirmed

#100 Post by worcej » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:26 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:20 pm
worcej wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:15 pm
orathaic wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:39 am
". All they really did was hand the decision back to the states."

Which makes abortion illegal. That the media misses this nuance isn't really much of a problem.
Technically it doesn't do what you're describing in all instances and only does so if the state in question passed a law to do so.

My issue at heart is everyone is blaming the Supreme Court for this, when in actuality I am more upset at Congress for continuously "legislating through the bench" instead of doing their own job and passing laws. Congress could've established this as law of the land in the 50 years since Roe was established in order to definitively establish what abortion should be like in the USA, but they never did. The reason, in my opinion, that they did not was because it would require politicians to expose themselves and possibly ruin their chance to be re-elected based off the position they take. It shouldn't be unknown to people in this subforum that politicians in the USA only care about one thing, and that's getting re-elected.

That being said, to the European folks here, is abortion legal in your country due to laws or was it established based off court interpretation with no laws on the books (AKA: Roe V Wade)?

My gut says it was legislated through your governments lawmaking bodies, but I am ignorant on if this is true or not.
In the UK, legal access to free and safe abortions has been widely available since 1967 due to a law, passed by our Parliament - specifically the Abortion Act 1967.

I would love to see your US Congress pass similar legislation. I assume they won't.
Truth be told, I would absolutely approve of Congress doing the same exact thing. And you're right, they most likely won't because both sides will not try to compromise on their positioning in any way.
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