War, what is it good for?

[worcej]

You cannot be slightly pregnant

A small aside, but would you not say that a woman who was 8 months pregnant was more pregnant than a woman who has missed a period and suspects she might be pregnant? To be "very pregnant" is a commonly heard expression in English, so why not slightly pregnant?

And I would say that politics is a world that is almost purely built on grey areas. I will happily call China a dictatorship, yet they hold elections of a sort. Russia straddles the gap between democracy and dictatorship. I wouldn't call Putin a dictator myself, but I understand those who do.

You don't hear of anyone being slightly pregnant because usually those people don't say anything because the chance of miscarriage is at it's highest then.

[flash2015]

Flash, mate, give it a rest. I have no enthusiasm for arguing with you about the definition of dictator, especially as you are unwilling to accept anything I say on the subject. If it makes you feel better by all means imagine that I believe that in order to be a dictator you have to wear either a beret or a bicorne hat, and enjoy the warm glow of smugness that comes from not sharing that belief. I do not care. I have zero interest in either your views or what you happen to believe about me. If you want to believe that you have won go ahead, give yourself a biscuit. Now, off you fuck.

Shown you were wrong and you just get more and more emotional. Given you plenty of room to clarify/correct and all you do is divert/divert/divert. It is a simple ask - what is a dictator to you? why isn't he a dictator in "the full sense of the word"? These aren't hard questions.

But whatever, dude. Keep playing those games...as that is all you are good at.

[flash2015]

I honestly don't find it weird because we've seen it so many times in US history. It's pretty standard for the party in power to have the other party go "all-in" to be vocally against the position that party takes in order to get an advantage for the next election if everything goes horribly wrong.

You are right that if you go back all through US history this realignment may not be too weird (e.g. like how Republicans and Democrats switched on racial issues). I hadn't though seen this sort of profound switch in our lifetime.

[Octavious]

How clear do you want me to make it?

I DO NOT THINK WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE IS A DICTATOR IS DETERMINED BY POPULARITY.

Do you understand now? I don't know how it can be expressed any simpler for you. Do you have particular needs you haven't told us about? Does your mum call you special?

Still, at least you have bothered to express some questions instead of your usual grunting and going off on wild tangents.

what is a dictator to you?

There is a large range of authoritarian characteristics a government can possess, the accumulation of which indicate a dictatorship. Where you draw the line in terms of defining a dictator is very much subject to the observer. It is possible to talk about this for hours, but as I have repeatedly said (and you have repeatedly ignored or failed to understand) I have no interest in doing so.

why isn't he a dictator in "the full sense of the word"?

Many reasons, one of which being the Russian elections and the Duma

[flash2015]

Was that so hard?

You could have written this like five posts ago without all your other nonsense and diversion. My questions were clear all along.

You fluffed of course on the dictator question...and I would argue that the Duma doesn't actually constrain Putin in any meaningful way (even China has its National People's Congress). Elections also aren't very meaningful if you murder or jail your opposition.

[orathaic]

Just going to leave this here: https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

Based on "The Dictator's Handbook"

[orathaic]

Also, the far right are split on this issue, some think Putin is great and doing the world a service by opposing Liberalism, that US Imperialism bring decadence, LGBTQ+, and all that terrible stuff.

Others think this white-on-white warfare is a terrible thing, and are torn because they liked the Fascists brigades in the Ukrainian national guard... Also more here (cn: anti-semitism) : https://hopenothate.org.uk/2022/02/24/t ... h-ukraine/

Meanwhile the far left (socialists) are anti-war, and critical both of Russia and US Imperialism: https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/no-t ... -invasion/

[Octavious]

Flash, how much of a thick shit are you? I don't care what you think. I don't have any interest in your opinions. I have a preference for you shutting up and ending your seemingly endless fascination with me. It's frankly a bit weird, and I'm sure everyone else is bored sick of you turning everything into an attempt to lock horns with me. I've no idea if you're after approval or respect or friendship or whatever, but you're not going to get it. Go away you strange little man.

[orathaic]

<Snip>
Even democracies sometimes need to give governments "dictatorial" powers at times (e.g. emergency powers act, war act etc.) to be able to overcome specific threats or emergencies.

Or Viktor Orban during a global pandemic... Not necessarily a good thing.

The important principle of course that absolute power, even if enabled for the best of intentions, will eventually turn corrupt. This is why it is so important that when enabled, it is important that it be of the most limited duration and scope possible.

I dislike this, as the rules for rulers describes, you always need people to execute your orders. So nobody has absolute power.

But also, absolute power reveals, not corrupts. For example (and i don't claim he has absolute power) Bill Gate's wealth reveals his generosity, he has spent hundreds of millions improving healthcare access and wiping out malaria. And while i argue no single person should world this kind of influence, not every Billionaire is revealed to be as well intentioned.

If you have absolute power, it would reveal who you truely are, and what you truely care about. I don't think it corrupts anyone... That said, even the most powerful are limited by the people they surround themselves with.

Gates might have people working for his charitable foundation who are corrupt and slimming off profits, similarly Putin may be limited to acting in ways which other Russian Nationalists agree are in Russia's National interest.

I have seen speculation today that this is the first step in Putin's downfall: https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status ... QxZKzX_HnA

[Octavious]

That's some mightily impressive wishful thinking from that random Twitter chap. You're better off hoping that the excitement of it all gives Putin a heart attack.

Tend to agree in some respects on the power corrupts thing, although it's worth saying that in many respects who we are is formed by our experiences, and that by having immense power your experiences will inevitably become a stream of decisions that massively impact others for good and ill. To hold such power for a significant period of time therefore inevitably changes you, and some of those changes will be for the worse. So yes, power does corrupt. But yes, to a large degree people who become twats after getting power were always twats but without the means to express it.

[orathaic]

That's some mightily impressive wishful thinking from that random Twitter chap. You're better off hoping that the excitement of it all gives Putin a heart attack.

Tend to agree in some respects on the power corrupts thing, although it's worth saying that in many respects who we are is formed by our experiences, and that by having immense power your experiences will inevitably become a stream of decisions that massively impact others for good and ill. To hold such power for a significant period of time therefore inevitably changes you, and some of those changes will be for the worse. So yes, power does corrupt. But yes, to a large degree people who become twats after getting power were always twats but without the means to express it.

In a fairly unique position, i think i agree with everything you said there.

Not sure about Twitter speaker. China has taken a position to be completely neutral, and so will be trading significantly with Russia. From the little i understand this is not surprising, but also it will be significant in helping Russians maintain their standard of living.

[Randomizer]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/u ... index.html

No world wide commendation of Russia's indiscriminate shelling of civilian targets including schools. Oh wait it isn't Israel.

Never mind!

[orathaic]

Excellent critique of the Western Left.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/a- ... from-kyiv/

[flash2015]

Flash, how much of a thick shit are you? I don't care what you think. I don't have any interest in your opinions. I have a preference for you shutting up and ending your seemingly endless fascination with me. It's frankly a bit weird, and I'm sure everyone else is bored sick of you turning everything into an attempt to lock horns with me. I've no idea if you're after approval or respect or friendship or whatever, but you're not going to get it. Go away you strange little man.

Are you seriously losing it? Your posts are becoming more and more irrational and demented. We are only having this back and forth because YOU RESPONDED TO MY POST with your critique of it.

This is a Politics forum. The whole point of this is to hear a variety of opinions from all over the spectrum on a topic. If someone like you makes a claim, expect to be asked to expand on it/back it up with facts.

If you are so sore at being called out on your nonsense and you don't like me anymore, that is fine! I am a little disappointed in how you completely lost it here but I understand that sometimes it can all be just a little much. Look, just mark me as foe and you no longer have to feel so uncomfortable when I call you out on your s***.

Anyway, hope you have a good weekend!

[Octavious]

We were all having a pretty decent discussion. Then you invented the idea that I'd made some definition of dictator you didn't like and went off on one. I explained that you were mistaken, which to any normal person would have been the end of it, but you insisted on dedicating the next umpteen posts to trying to argue against me on a point that was both utterly trivial and only existed in your own imagination. An imagination that apparently likes to fantasise about me having extreme emotional responses to your posts. Whatever turns you on, I guess.

[cormorant]

Oct - has anything in the past few days made you reconsider your position as a Putin apologist as expressed in your response se below?

flash2015 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:11 pm
why isn't he a dictator in "the full sense of the word"?

Many reasons, one of which being the Russian elections and the Duma

[Octavious]

If you want to be treated with respect, cormorant, you should avoid saying anything as utterly ridiculous as that again.

[cormorant]

Oct - has anything in the past few days made you reconsider your position as a Putin apologist as expressed in your response se below?

flash2015 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:11 pm
why isn't he a dictator in "the full sense of the word"?

Many reasons, one of which being the Russian elections and the Duma

This is a direct quote from you, 1 year after the Navalny protestors were mopped off the street and 7 years after the Nemtsov assassination. People can have different informed opinions about what an “apologist” is right?

[Octavious]

Indeed so... Unfortunately I can't for the life of me think of any viable definition you can be using that makes your question anything other than inane gibberish. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

[Matticus13]

I have missed the politics... The drama... The tangents... Where'd Alex go? Back to Russia??

Maybe back to the topic of Russian invasion, and what it could be good for: my bet would be Putin adding to his legacy (as far as he's concerned).

Putin is a narcissistic, KGB relic who pines for the "good ol' days" once more. The reintegration of Ukraine (via installed puppet government) into the Russian led Collective Security Treaty Organization would be another step toward establishing the NewSSR. So, one day he can be remembered amongst Ivan, Alexander, and Uncle Joe.

I do think he underestimated the response from the Ukrainian people and the EU. I expect the fighting to ramp up after (I wouldn't be surprised if they launched a major assault during) "peace talks" fail this morning. A rather large column of armor is very near Kyiv now... Russia has supposedly created a safe passage out of Kyiv for the civilian population.

I don't see Putin stopping until he has Kyiv. The longer it takes, the less he will care about civilian casualties.