Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

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brainbomb
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Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#1 Post by brainbomb » Fri May 14, 2021 8:39 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57110368

The disproportionate use of force never ceases to amaze me.
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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#2 Post by brainbomb » Fri May 14, 2021 8:41 pm

Gaza's health ministry said 31 children were among those killed since fighting began, and many other civilians have died.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#3 Post by brainbomb » Fri May 14, 2021 8:44 pm

yea, way to really stick it to Hamas...

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#4 Post by Randomizer » Fri May 14, 2021 10:45 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 8:39 pm
The disproportionate use of force never ceases to amaze me.
If Israel hadn't spent decades on rocket and missile defense after Iraq's Scud missiles, the results would have been different. Over 1300 rockets launched by Hamas and a quarter landed in Gaza to hurt their own people.

What do recommend, a country not build defenses against foreign attacks?
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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#5 Post by brainbomb » Fri May 14, 2021 11:32 pm

Were talking about a country that bombed lebanon to the ground over one guy getting kidnapped. the israeli war machine is always itchin for an excuse to flex

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#6 Post by Octavious » Sat May 15, 2021 5:02 am

In a related topic, why is the American embassy still in Jerusalem? I was assuming that this was one of the list of "Trump outrages" that would be immediately reversed?
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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#7 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 15, 2021 10:41 am

Agree with this thread title. Israel is a fascist settler colony which has stolen the land of the Palestinians and is intent on eradicating them. The latest "clashes" were prompted by Israeli settlers, with the backing of their thuggish, Zionist police force, trying to force Palestinian families out of the predominantly Arab district of Sheikh Jarrah in Jerusalem, one of the remaining Palestinian communities in that divided city, along with other incidents of Zionist police brutality since the start of Ramadan.

Israel will not stop until the very notion of "Palestine" is murdered and destroyed.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#8 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 15, 2021 10:42 am

Today Israel has been murdering Palestinian children in a fucking refugee camp, for fuck's sake. They are just evil.
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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#9 Post by brainbomb » Sat May 15, 2021 12:36 pm

Israel would bomb a kids lemonade stand and claim hamas supplied the sugar
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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#10 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat May 15, 2021 1:56 pm

Now Israel has bombed and destroyed the office block housing Al Jazeera news and the Associated Press in Gaza. Targeting journalists as well as murdering women and children. This bloodthirsty fascist regime just goes on and on.

The UN Human Rights Commissioner has called for an urgent independent investigation into Israel's war crimes.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#11 Post by Octavious » Sat May 15, 2021 4:55 pm

Clearly they weren't targeting journalists or they wouldn't have warned them to get out first. It is possible that they were targeting journalism, in the sense that the anti Israel press will be anti Israel regardless, so you might as well have them talking endlessly about themselves and their building rather than the bigger picture. It is also possible that the Israeli narrative about the building hosting an enemy intelligence facility is accurate. Both could be true, of course.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#12 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 16, 2021 3:44 am

I may be an old fuddy duddy here...but I would argue that countries that think of themselves as Western democracies probably shouldn't be targeting the free press with air strikes.

That the media outlets may not have been been obsequious enough in following the "official" narrative does not make the airstrikes OK.

That journalists were not killed does not make it OK. Killing journalists in an office building well-known to hold the offices of international media organizations would lead to incredible international outrage and condemnation. The Israeli government isn't that stupid.

No evidence has been provided so far that the building contained an enemy intelligence facility. Even if it did it would be difficult to justify. It would have to be an extraordinarily important target to justify taking out this specific building.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#13 Post by Octavious » Sun May 16, 2021 8:31 am

Yes

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#14 Post by orathaic » Sun May 16, 2021 9:12 am

'free press' and 'western democracy', makes me think you should read 'manufacturing consent' - just an aside on how Chomsky explains that the 'free' press produces the same kind of uncritical press that the Soviet Unions official state propoganda machinery.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#15 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 16, 2021 3:40 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 9:12 am
'free press' and 'western democracy', makes me think you should read 'manufacturing consent' - just an aside on how Chomsky explains that the 'free' press produces the same kind of uncritical press that the Soviet Unions official state propoganda machinery.
I am not sure exactly what point you are arguing here.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#16 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 16, 2021 3:54 pm

A common argument that the Israeli PR uses to shield themselves from criticism is "whataboutism". e.g. Why are you criticizing Israel...when you haven't criticized $RANDOM other country to the same degree which supposedly is even worse?

Through the way I phrase my response I am explaining why it is important to single out Israel for criticism. They claim to be a democracy but are not living up to the values which we allegedly are supposed to hold.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#17 Post by Octavious » Sun May 16, 2021 4:35 pm

Are you? I'm glad you made that clear as it had passed me by completely. People tend to criticise Israel in particular largely because it happens to be in the media a lot and we're more familiar with it. I dare say there's an antisemitic element to it from a fair few people, but I've no reason to assume anyone here is guilty of that. Perhaps the purest reason for focusing attention on Israel is the belief, unfounded or otherwise, that there's a better than usual chance of actually making a difference... at least compared to the likes of China, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea.

In terms of trying to make a difference on the international stage you cannot help but be moved by the Herculean efforts being made by our own MajorMitchell regarding Burma. A nation that feels a long way away from Western Europe or the US, but is relatively local (if you squint a bit) to Australia.

I do worry a little about the imbalance of reporting, however. Hamas have now managed to bombard the Gaza Strip with around 500 missiles, causing dozens of deaths due to pure indifference and incompetence in their eagerness to act on their hate, yet this has barely had a mention. One wonders how other Western nations would react if tested to the same degree as Israel.

Still, credit where credit is due, the US Democratic Party has long ignored media pressure and backed Israel to the hilt. Without the backing of Obama the chances are the hugely successful Iron Dome system would never have been built. They have kept the diplomatic pressure to a minimum, even after the news building incident, and seem resolute in maintaining the Trump policy of keeping the US embassy in Israel. I imagine that it will be a massive comfort to the authorities in Israel to know that Biden has their back.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#18 Post by orathaic » Sun May 16, 2021 5:12 pm

There is a well known Western bias for reporting stories of white people and countries. An earthquake in California gets more coverage and help than the same in Nepal, for example.

Israel and whiteness / Western-Ness as it applies to Jewish communities is a bit odd. I have one neighbour who is of Jewish descent, but she would definitely pass as white around these parts (being Russian). Also, being seen as the most reliable US ally in the middle east and most westernised nation (though whether that is true or not depends on who you ask, apparently Iran was very westernised pre-revolution, and you still hear of 16 years asking for a nose job as their birthday present, even if that kind of Californian stereotype isn't what I think of when I hear 'western nation').

So
I am not sure exactly what point you are arguing here.
It is tangential. I just rail against the hypocracy, but it makes no difference to the point you were making.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#19 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 16, 2021 10:51 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 4:35 pm
Are you? I'm glad you made that clear as it had passed me by completely. People tend to criticise Israel in particular largely because it happens to be in the media a lot and we're more familiar with it. I dare say there's an antisemitic element to it from a fair few people, but I've no reason to assume anyone here is guilty of that. Perhaps the purest reason for focusing attention on Israel is the belief, unfounded or otherwise, that there's a better than usual chance of actually making a difference... at least compared to the likes of China, Saudi Arabia, or North Korea.
In terms of trying to make a difference on the international stage you cannot help but be moved by the Herculean efforts being made by our own MajorMitchell regarding Burma. A nation that feels a long way away from Western Europe or the US, but is relatively local (if you squint a bit) to Australia.
[/quote]

Probably not the best counter-example to bring up considering that my wife is Burmese and the last few months have been incredibly stressful for us. My wife has friends that have been murdered my the military and relatives in jail. The coup and its after-effects are a part of our lives every single day at the moment.

It is nice what MajorMitchell is trying to do here...but I believe it is largely shouting at the wind. Unlike Israel (or South Africa before it), Burma is not in the Western sphere of influence. If international pressure is to have any effect it really has to come from ASEAN and China...and it doesn't look like that will happen. If there is any link between the Israel and Burma issues is that a surprising amount of Israeli military hardware keeps popping up in Burmese military hands.

Anyway, so unfortunately the Burmese are on their own. The chances of international military help is nil. It will be the brave Burmese that continue to stand up against the government that will make the difference, that especially the young people won't accept going back to the dark past. I believe the best way to help is to provide direct support to these anti-government organizations...which is what we are already doing.

We could talk about it more here...but at least from what I have seen so far no-one apart from Major Mitchell and me appears to care. I may have missed it but I haven't seen any evidence that you give a shit. You are way too happy trolling contentious threads to see if you can get reactions.
I do worry a little about the imbalance of reporting, however. Hamas have now managed to bombard the Gaza Strip with around 500 missiles, causing dozens of deaths due to pure indifference and incompetence in their eagerness to act on their hate, yet this has barely had a mention. One wonders how other Western nations would react if tested to the same degree as Israel.
I don't know where you are getting your news from. US news is strongly pro-Israel and has been that way for at least the past two decades. The rocket attacks have been all over the news here...largely with little context on the why they are happening now. The raids on the Al-Aqsa mosque and the threatened eviction of Palestinian residents from the Sheikh Jarrah have largely been ignored by the media. My understanding is that once Palestinians are evicted from Sheikh Jarrah, Israeli settlements effectively encircle East Jerusalem. It is kind of understandable that Palestinians are a little upset. The Economic Times (an Indian publication) gave a nice summary of the sequence of events:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 675278.cms

I am absolutely not suggesting that Hamas isn't a bad actor here. It absolutely is. But we shouldn't criticize Hamas exclusively and give the slow moving ethnic cleansing a pass. The two state solution is becoming less and less viable by the day. If the two state solution is no longer possible the international community should be discussing what the alternative is.
Still, credit where credit is due, the US Democratic Party has long ignored media pressure and backed Israel to the hilt. Without the backing of Obama the chances are the hugely successful Iron Dome system would never have been built. They have kept the diplomatic pressure to a minimum, even after the news building incident, and seem resolute in maintaining the Trump policy of keeping the US embassy in Israel. I imagine that it will be a massive comfort to the authorities in Israel to know that Biden has their back.
You seem to be quite disconnected from reality. In the US you have to be a very brave politician to criticize Israel at all. There is large bipartisan support for creation of laws which punish criticism of Israel even though the US is supposedly a bastion of "free speech".

When there are so many internal issues to deal with, I wouldn't expect Biden to expend political capital towards Israel in the near future. If Biden has to get involved in international issues in the short term, likely Iran will have much higher priority given the efforts to try and salvage the Iran deal and the upcoming Iranian elections.

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Re: Meanwhile another Palestinian Genocide brought to you by Israeli Fascists

#20 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 16, 2021 11:49 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 5:12 pm
There is a well known Western bias for reporting stories of white people and countries. An earthquake in California gets more coverage and help than the same in Nepal, for example.

Israel and whiteness / Western-Ness as it applies to Jewish communities is a bit odd. I have one neighbour who is of Jewish descent, but she would definitely pass as white around these parts (being Russian). Also, being seen as the most reliable US ally in the middle east and most westernised nation (though whether that is true or not depends on who you ask, apparently Iran was very westernised pre-revolution, and you still hear of 16 years asking for a nose job as their birthday present, even if that kind of Californian stereotype isn't what I think of when I hear 'western nation').

So
I am not sure exactly what point you are arguing here.
It is tangential. I just rail against the hypocracy, but it makes no difference to the point you were making.
Rightly or wrongly, it is natural to be more interested in events which affects people more closely related to you, either physically or culturally.

I don't see "whiteness" and "Western-Ness" as synonymous. I am more talking about style of government, institutions, "secular-ness" etc. Israel tries to act like it is the same as the UK, Ireland or the USA...though when it is criticized it sets the bar much lower.

I guess you could have said that Iran was more Westernized pre-revolution as it was more secular then...though I don't believe it had the institutions which come with traditional "Westernized" society.

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