USA starts a trade war with allies

Any political discussion should go here. This subforum will be moderated differently than other forums.
Forum rules
1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
Message
Author
ksako8
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Karma: 35

USA starts a trade war with allies

#1 Post by ksako8 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:37 am

Apparently steel and aluminum from The Netherlands are a threat to US national security?

Jeff Kuta
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:44 pm
Karma: 10

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#2 Post by Jeff Kuta » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:29 pm

"Trade wars are good, and easy to win."

- Republican POTUS

Randomizer
Posts: 704
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 216

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#3 Post by Randomizer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:44 pm

Trump isn't building as much and doesn't need that cheap Chinese steel he used to buy.

Jeff Kuta
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:44 pm
Karma: 10

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#4 Post by Jeff Kuta » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:49 pm

Tax returns, please.

eturnage
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:31 pm
Karma: 27

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#5 Post by eturnage » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:09 pm

The USG is one of the few in the world that taxes the income of Citizens even when that income is earned in a foreign nation. Totally AFU, IMO. You have to give up US Citizenship to avoid the federal taxes. The USG also makes it very hard for a citizen to obtain an overseas banking account. Most banks will not open an account for a US Citizen because of the USG policies of disclosure and regulation that we impose unilaterally on the rest of the world. In short, the USG sucks.

Condescension
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:09 pm
Karma: 19

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#6 Post by Condescension » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:10 pm

As a US/Canadian dual citizen... yes, this fucking sucks.
1

Randomizer
Posts: 704
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 216

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#7 Post by Randomizer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:54 pm

The USG allows for the deduction of taxes paid in foreign countries on income earned in those countries. So that's not totally true about taxing foreign income.

CroakandDagger
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:07 am
Karma: 195

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#8 Post by CroakandDagger » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:38 pm

Even if it were true, it'd be a reasonable measure to stop people abusing dual citizenship tax loopholes.

peterlund
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 1032
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:52 pm
Location: Sverige
Karma: 317
Contact:

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#9 Post by peterlund » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:22 pm

Well we in the EU will retaliate soon enough with counter measures. See how well it goes then for Ronald McDonald and his lunitic regime. So how many more American jobs this will create. Good luck I guess is in place.

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#10 Post by Incrementalist » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Trump for some unfathomable reason deployed this at least a year too early, but it could be an effective re-election strategy, if he makes it that far.

It steals some thunder from left-leaning Democrats who might conceivably propose the same sort of thing, and although most genuine Republicans are against it, what are they going to do, vote Democratic next time? The only way that Republicans might conceivably bolt is if the Democrats ran another committed neoliberal in 2020, which is unlikely considering how that played out in 2016.

ksako8
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Karma: 35

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#11 Post by ksako8 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:22 pm

It can become very ugly. The EU and China will retaliate and then it could scalate fast.

Ogion
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:21 pm
Karma: 112

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#12 Post by Ogion » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:47 pm

how is it a loophole? If a Canadian and an American earn income in France, say, they both pay French taxes, but the American ALSO pays taxes on what ever is left over. Naturally, anyone hiring foreign nationals to do work (say, any third world country wanting foreign expertise) would not hire an American because htey cost more.

Octavious
Posts: 2525
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 1961
Contact:

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#13 Post by Octavious » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:51 pm

Does the EU export much steel to the US? And if so who in the US is choosing to buy expensive foreign steel over cheap foreign steel?

It strikes me that these are the opening plays in long-term negotiations rather than a trade war. Parking your trade gunboat in the port whilst your negotiation team gets ready for a chat. And the US trade gunboat is rather more impressive than its rivals.

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#14 Post by Incrementalist » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:05 am

"ut the American ALSO pays taxes on what ever is left over."

Is there anything left over after the French collect their taxes? I would assume that the US has a lower income tax rate, so after the foreign taxes paid to France are deducted, there isn't anything owed to the US.

Someone has to know this concretely though, anyone?

"Naturally, anyone hiring foreign nationals to do work (say, any third world country wanting foreign expertise) would not hire an American because htey [sic] cost more."

In reality more than zero Americans work abroad, so this is not the case.

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#15 Post by Incrementalist » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:06 am

Sorry, I didn't mean to boldface that.

Wusti
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 152

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#16 Post by Wusti » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:49 am

Trump is an idiot - the sooner you Americans quietly shunt him off to the retirement village the better for everyone. Trade Wars, for a trading nation are about as stupid as you can get.

Foxcastle
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:48 pm
Location: Night Vale
Karma: 1229

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#17 Post by Foxcastle » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:16 am

Octavious wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:51 pm
It strikes me that these are the opening plays in long-term negotiations rather than a trade war. Parking your trade gunboat in the port whilst your negotiation team gets ready for a chat. And the US trade gunboat is rather more impressive than its rivals.
Except trade negotiations are long, drawn out, tedious, technical, bureaucratic arguments. So you can't negotiate trade like you can negotiate other international situations, where the president can make big threats to get everyone to the table. The thing that makes this a trade war is that the best response to this action from other countries is a trade war.

Also there are unique threats to the WTO with how Trump is doing this, either of which lead to chaos... These tariffs would normally be illegal under WTO rules, but there's an exception for national security, which Trump is invoking on some pretty thin pretexts. Which means that another country can sue the US under WTO rules. If the US prevails, other nations simply invoke the same clause for their own tariffs, effectively gutting the WTO and unleashing a flurry of protectionism and retaliation. If they US loses, do you think Trump backs down? I doubt it, and so the WTO falls apart because if the US won't abide, then why should anyone else, unleashing a flurry of protectionism and retaliation.

That could take years, though, for that case to be resolved. So it's better for other countries to just retaliate, either with legal provisions under existing rules, or with illegal countertariffs that also won't be resolved for years.

TrPrado
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Posts: 1904
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:22 pm
Location: OOOOOOKLAHOMA WHERE THE WIND COMES SWEEPING DOWN THE PLAIN
Karma: 525
Contact:

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#18 Post by TrPrado » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:21 am

Trade wars always mean higher prices and therefore always hurt consumers.

Condescension
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:09 pm
Karma: 19

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#19 Post by Condescension » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:03 am

The best way to negotiate is to establish relationships so both sides don't defect in cooperation dilemmas. Ethics 101. This race-to-the-bottom shit is only conceivably profitable in the short term and leads to lower net benefit overall.

ksako8
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Karma: 35

Re: USA starts a trade war with allies

#20 Post by ksako8 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:10 am

@Octavious: the EU sells mostly specialized steel to the US. Some of it is not even made in the US. Hence trade.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest