Go for guns first, due process second

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Jeff Kuta
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Go for guns first, due process second

#1 Post by Jeff Kuta » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:42 am

From our gun-grabbing POTUS, TheDonald.
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WyattS14
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#2 Post by WyattS14 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:59 am

I know right? Holy shit.

I’m in the same place as Mr Kimmel on this one. Speechless

But not in a bad way, I think that if he REALLY wants to carry out all of the shocking “unlike trump” statements he made on gun control in the meeting with congress members, he could really take a step towards making America great again for the first time in his presidency. Kudos to not being afraid of what your party might think for the first time, Mr President
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leon1122
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#3 Post by leon1122 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:30 pm

If he actually goes through with it, that’ll make him a 1 term President for sure.

WyattS14
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#4 Post by WyattS14 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 am

I dunno Leon, I think a majority agrees with it

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#5 Post by Durga » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:59 am

I love Republican rage. Where is ND?
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leon1122
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#6 Post by leon1122 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:27 am

WyattS14 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 am
I dunno Leon, I think a majority agrees with it
Lol, no.

President Eden
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#7 Post by President Eden » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:27 am

WyattS14 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:39 am
I dunno Leon, I think a majority agrees with it
Trump got nearly half of the popular vote. If 90% of Republicans oppose gun grabs (which is probably an underestimation), then the remaining just-over-half would have to be at least 80% in support of gun grabs. That just doesn't seem likely to me on some quick napkin math.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#8 Post by Ogion » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 am

The popular vote only includes about 60% of the people.

It's important to keep in mind that he was talking about grabbing guns specifically from the mentally ill or people with restraining orders. I suspect a significant number of Republicans support that concept. Furthermore, I can't imagine any Democrat opposing that, so it'd have to be in a primary and Trump still has massive support from Republicans.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#9 Post by WyattS14 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:12 am

^^

leon1122
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#10 Post by leon1122 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:30 am

Ogion wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 am
The popular vote only includes about 60% of the people.

It's important to keep in mind that he was talking about grabbing guns specifically from the mentally ill or people with restraining orders. I suspect a significant number of Republicans support that concept. Furthermore, I can't imagine any Democrat opposing that, so it'd have to be in a primary and Trump still has massive support from Republicans.
He also talked about banning assault rifles and raising the age to buy a gun to 21.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#11 Post by MamaLama » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:44 pm

Even if Trump passes the gun grab law it is not like he is going to suddenly convince liberal voters to vote for him, where as he will piss of republicans enough to not vote for him. All and all I think that is he going to lose votes over this one, but maybe his approval rating will go up

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#12 Post by peterlund » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:10 pm

Jeff Kuta wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:42 am
From our gun-grabbing POTUS, TheDonald.
Ronald McDonald?

Jeff Kuta
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#13 Post by Jeff Kuta » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:05 pm

MamaLama wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:44 pm
...where as he will piss of republicans enough to not vote for him.
I think you (and Democrats) underestimate the ability of Republicans to hate Democrats when they step into the voting booth.

It's the nature of conservatism to batten down the hatches against all perceived enemies, foreign and domestic.

Hell, Trump even keeps an Enemies List. He's a sociopath.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#14 Post by Ogion » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:30 pm

I heard an interesting piece today about a state judge who pointed out that the business of seizing guns without due process will have serious constitutional problems, but that for a lot of issues, such as temporary restraining orders for domestic violence, there is a shortened process that qualifies as due process because it faces a different balance of compelling interest and individual protections. That involves the authorities presenting their evidence for probable cause that there is a serious risk to a judge, who authorizes an action, and then the correctness of the judge's determination can be argued about later. That's probabaly the sort of "red flag" system that could be workable constitutionally.

Just food for thought for y'all

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#15 Post by Ogion » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:32 pm

leon1122 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:30 am
Ogion wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 am
The popular vote only includes about 60% of the people.

It's important to keep in mind that he was talking about grabbing guns specifically from the mentally ill or people with restraining orders. I suspect a significant number of Republicans support that concept. Furthermore, I can't imagine any Democrat opposing that, so it'd have to be in a primary and Trump still has massive support from Republicans.
He also talked about banning assault rifles and raising the age to buy a gun to 21.
True, but that would be through legislation (which frankly ain't going to happen*), which is a different matter than this policing practice.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#16 Post by Randomizer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:43 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/01/us/calif ... index.html

In California they can go after guns that were legally obtained, but the owner no longer has the right because of felony convictions or other legal changes. They'll probably catch up after the next major earthquakes dumps half the state in the Pacific Ocean to reduce the case load.

I love the example they had of an idiot that kept his guns where they could be easily stolen since he stashed them under his bed. No gun cabinet, safe, or even trigger locks to make them harder to be taken. Two of the assault style rifles had no serial number and the third had a bump stock.

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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#17 Post by Foxcastle » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:55 pm

Ogion wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 am
It's important to keep in mind that he was talking about grabbing guns specifically from the mentally ill or people with restraining orders. I suspect a significant number of Republicans support that concept.
They don't. Remember that after the Orlando shooting in 2016, Congress debated whether people on the terrorist watch list should be prohibited/delayed from purchasing guns... which failed.

The issue isn't whether Republicans think that they mentally ill shouldn't have guns (they probably think they shouldn't), it's whether they think that measures used to deny mentally ill people guns could then be used to deny non-mentally ill people guns. Which is why Republicans are willing to talk about gun control based on mental health, because it can't be used against people who are not formally mentally ill.

Randomizer
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#18 Post by Randomizer » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:02 pm

Republicans removed the Obama era restrictions on mentally ill being able to get guns even though it had an appeal process where they could still buy guns if they proved their mental illness wouldn't make them unsafe users.

Jeff Kuta
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#19 Post by Jeff Kuta » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:35 pm

Republicans are never serious about gun control when they trot out prohibitions for the mentally ill. Everyone agrees on that but Republicans also claim to hate government coercion against anyone, including the mentally ill.

They want their cake and to eat it too. How convenient.
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leon1122
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Re: Go for guns first, due process second

#20 Post by leon1122 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:38 am

Ogion wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:32 pm
leon1122 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:30 am
Ogion wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:05 am
The popular vote only includes about 60% of the people.

It's important to keep in mind that he was talking about grabbing guns specifically from the mentally ill or people with restraining orders. I suspect a significant number of Republicans support that concept. Furthermore, I can't imagine any Democrat opposing that, so it'd have to be in a primary and Trump still has massive support from Republicans.
He also talked about banning assault rifles and raising the age to buy a gun to 21.
True, but that would be through legislation (which frankly ain't going to happen*), which is a different matter than this policing practice.
Sure, but the fact that he is advocating for this despite campaigning on protection of the second amendment will have consequences in the poll booth.

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