EU loses its appeal

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Octavious
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EU loses its appeal

#1 Post by Octavious » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:12 pm

You may be forgiven, after the knife edge Brexit referendum and enthusiastic attempts to overturn it, that a good number of Brits (possibly even a slim majority) would be keen to rejoin.

If so, you'd be wrong.

According to recent polling (Opinium, 6-7 January 2021) a preference to rejoin the EU at some point in the future is held by just over a quarter of Brits, at 27%. Despite being one of those who voted Remain but now wouldn't want rejoining to be on the cards, I still find this somewhat surprising.

After recent EU blunders involving Northern Ireland and vaccinations, and to a lesser extent its latest foreign policy embarrassments with Russia and China, I imagine this figure has retreated still further.

It is, against all expectations, good to be out.

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orathaic
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Re: EU loses its appeal

#2 Post by orathaic » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:16 pm

Can you tell me, is 27% of a population of ~66 million, greater or less than the number of ppl who voted to leave?

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#3 Post by Octavious » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:07 pm

I have literally no idea what the relevance of that question is.

But if you're asking whether 27 % of the British electorate (which is 27% of ~48 million... call it 13 million) is more than the 17 million who voted for Brexit, then the answer is no. If you include all the ickle kiddies and babies you can just about get to a larger number, but I'm not sure why that would be of interest.

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#4 Post by flash2015 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:39 pm

Do you have a link to the poll? What percentage don't want to rejoin the EU...and what percentage are undecided? The one I saw in the new statesmen had 34% either undecided or wouldn't vote:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... reverse-it

I don't think it is terribly surprising after such an ordeal that people would not want to immediately rejoin the EU. Wait a decade...and see what people think then.
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Re: EU loses its appeal

#5 Post by Octavious » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:56 pm

The poll was used to form part of the following report. Knock yourself out :)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... bqGCMFrRsj
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Re: EU loses its appeal

#6 Post by orathaic » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:20 pm

Oct, you said 27% of brits, not of the electorate. You didn't say it was a poll with a sample size of 10, or 100 for example, so I've no idea what you're talking about.

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#7 Post by Octavious » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:48 pm

orathaic wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:20 pm
Oct, you said 27% of brits, not of the electorate. You didn't say it was a poll with a sample size of 10, or 100 for example, so I've no idea what you're talking about.
Seriously?

Tell you what, ora, if you wish to believe that the poll was asked of 10 elderly Yorkshiremen in a pub next to the Opinium head office then go ahead and do so. It will not bother me in the least. I couldn't care less if you believe that every man, woman, and child who fall into that 27% are straining at the bit to get out and campaign to rejoin, and the other 73% are utterly disinterested in the whole thing. You would be laughably wrong, but I have little interest and nothing to gain from trying to convince you to think differently.

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#8 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:39 pm

Interesting that you left out the parts where the same research also showed, and I quote:

"22% [of Britons] wish to pursue a closer relationship [with the EU] than set out in the deal"

and

"only 12% of Britons support a more distant relationship with the EU".

This led to the conclusion, in the report, that:

"These findings suggest that the proportion of Britons who support a closer relationship with the EU is considerably higher than the proportion who are satisfied with the [current] deal or wish to create further distance"

So, Octavious, you created a thread about how the EU was "losing its appeal", but in fact the study you quoted actually found that a great many Britons want us to move back to a closer relationship with the EU, whether or not that involves an immediate return to EU membership, whereas a considerably smaller proportion of the population wants either the current situation, or even more distance.

That seems to me a rather different picture than the one you were trying to paint.
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Re: EU loses its appeal

#9 Post by Octavious » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:33 am

The picture I was painting was completely accurate and a commentary on the astounding fact that we have progressed as a country from a position where approximately half of the population favoured EU membership, with a remarkable number of those enthusiastic enough to actually vote for it, to the current position where only just over a quarter of people believe rejoining is worth considering. That, to me, feels like a massive shift.

That there's enthusiasm for a closer relationship with the EU from a fair few those who don't want us to rejoin is not remotely surprising as the Brexit vote has long contained this subset and we ended up with a more distant relationship than many were predicting. This doesn't in any way contradict the point I was illustrating

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#10 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:54 am

Octavious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:33 am
The picture I was painting was completely accurate and a commentary on the astounding fact that we have progressed as a country from a position where approximately half of the population favoured EU membership, with a remarkable number of those enthusiastic enough to actually vote for it, to the current position where only just over a quarter of people believe rejoining is worth considering. That, to me, feels like a massive shift.

That there's enthusiasm for a closer relationship with the EU from a fair few those who don't want us to rejoin is not remotely surprising as the Brexit vote has long contained this subset and we ended up with a more distant relationship than many were predicting. This doesn't in any way contradict the point I was illustrating
The idiotic Brexit referendum has put us through several years of stress, recrimination, and national disharmony. The fact that even pro-EU people don't immediately want to go through all of that again is hardly "astounding".

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#11 Post by Octavious » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:05 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:54 am
The idiotic Brexit referendum has put us through several years of stress, recrimination, and national disharmony. The fact that even pro-EU people don't immediately want to go through all of that again is hardly "astounding".
Curious. Nowhere in the report does it mention mention that the 27% want to immediately return to the EU. The 27% favour considering a return at some point in the future. The number favouring an immediate return will likely be somewhat smaller.

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Re: Everyone loves the EU

#12 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:30 am

Octavious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:05 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:54 am
The idiotic Brexit referendum has put us through several years of stress, recrimination, and national disharmony. The fact that even pro-EU people don't immediately want to go through all of that again is hardly "astounding".
Curious. Nowhere in the report does it mention mention that the 27% want to immediately return to the EU. The 27% favour considering a return at some point in the future. The number favouring an immediate return will likely be somewhat smaller.
Yes but they are being asked now, so one might assume they gave their opinions based on how they feel now, not on how they might feel at some point in the future. It's difficult to ask people "how do you think you will feel about this emotive issue in two to five years' time?"

I don't know what your point is in this thread to be quite honest.

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Re: EU loses its appeal

#13 Post by Octavious » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:30 pm

It was an observation of a polling result which was as remarkable as it was unexpected. Your instincts to try and play it down are not unexpected, and indeed similar instincts held by Remainers is a large part of why we lost. In all honesty I was hoping to get some views from people who are less devoted to an ideology, but you just don't get that on webDip these days.

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Re: Many Brits want closer ties with EU

#14 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:50 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:30 pm
It was an observation of a polling result which was as remarkable as it was unexpected. Your instincts to try and play it down are not unexpected, and indeed similar instincts held by Remainers is a large part of why we lost. In all honesty I was hoping to get some views from people who are less devoted to an ideology, but you just don't get that on webDip these days.
I'm reacting honestly. I don't think it's particularly remarkable or unexpected, especially in the context that the report shows broad general support for closer ties with the EU. There's a huge level of Brexit fatigue even among remainers. I'm not sure why you find that so surprising.

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