US authoritarianism

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orathaic
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US authoritarianism

#1 Post by orathaic » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:33 pm

Fears in the US describing the swing towards authoritarianism.

Described very well here:

https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/stat ... 57761?s=19

Octavious
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Re: US authoritarianism

#2 Post by Octavious » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:20 pm

Congratulations on finding yet another person on Twitter who thinks as you do. We're building up such an impressive list of people who say the sort of things you say that we almost don't need you at all.

Top marks to her for an impressive bit of book promotion, and she's clearly put a lot of effort into her Twitter photo. The shading, meaningful gaze aimed slightly up, beautifully framed... A very professional job.

But ultimately the content is the usual left wing fear mongering. The first Trump election was supposedly going to be the end of America, and the Bush presidency before that. Just as every one of the Tory victories in the UK would destroy the NHS. Funny how the fact that this never actually happens doesn't put them off warning of exactly the same thing the next time.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#3 Post by Randomizer » Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:07 am

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/28/opinions ... index.html
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... -americas/

Trump is waiting for his burning the Reichstag moment to fully seize power. Much like other that went from elected leader to dictator he keeps finding the "other" to demonize as the reason he needs to remain in power and go beyond the rules of law in running the government. As long as the Republicans control the Senate, he has immunity to rule by executive order until overturned by the Supreme Court which is reluctant to do even that. Trump rarely even asks for approval by the Senate for political appointments and just keeps appointing temps in violation to the Succession Act for positions;

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Re: US authoritarianism

#4 Post by orathaic » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 am

Thanks Oct, lovely of you to completely ignore and dismiss the content of this thread and focus instead on the superficial.

Great way to encourage discussion.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#5 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:37 pm

The superficial is clearly important otherwise she wouldn't have dedicated so much effort to getting it right. The actual content, by way of contrast, is typical paint by numbers left wing nonsense.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#6 Post by flash2015 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:36 pm

orathaic wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 am
Thanks Oct, lovely of you to completely ignore and dismiss the content of this thread and focus instead on the superficial.

Great way to encourage discussion.
Given that Octavious has been such a Trump apologist in the past, it is probably unreasonable to think he will change now. Again, in most discussions he is little more than a troll.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#7 Post by Matticus13 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:10 pm

I don't like Trump, but this is stretching it... The Democrats stack courts, gerrymander, and rule by Executive Order (when they control the Executive Branch). Most people who are/like/favor Democrats don't bitch at all when it's the other way around...
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Re: US authoritarianism

#8 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:45 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:36 pm
Given that Octavious has been such a Trump apologist in the past, it is probably unreasonable to think he will change now. Again, in most discussions he is little more than a troll.
Have you fallen so far from reason that every opposing view to yours you now consider trolling?

A depressing state of affairs

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Re: US authoritarianism

#9 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:48 pm

I also note that you failed abysmally to meet my challenge of finding all these supposedly pro-Trump threads I write. They exist only in the imagination of your personal narrative.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#10 Post by flash2015 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:18 pm

Octavious wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:45 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:36 pm
Given that Octavious has been such a Trump apologist in the past, it is probably unreasonable to think he will change now. Again, in most discussions he is little more than a troll.
Have you fallen so far from reason that every opposing view to yours you now consider trolling?

A depressing state of affairs
I am fine if you don't agree...but actually make an argument for once. Instead you just continued your practice of throwing around labels and created an "ad hominem" attack on the author.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#11 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm

My argument is that it is typical left wing fear mongering in the style of the little boy who cried wolf. It is not a difficult argument to grasp, flash. I'm sure it's not beyond you. If you want evidence, look at every election ever and you will find the same nonsense.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#12 Post by flash2015 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm

Octavious wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm
My argument is that it is typical left wing fear mongering in the style of the little boy who cried wolf. It is not a difficult argument to grasp, flash. I'm sure it's not beyond you. If you want evidence, look at every election ever and you will find the same nonsense.
And again you continue. Perhaps you are skeptical that this is different than the elections that came before. A way to actually have a discussion here would be to push orathaic to actually make the case why this is different (the person in the Twitter thread didn't go into specific details). Perhaps there could have been some interesting back and forth on the detail. Instead by going all "ad hominem" and throwing out the labels you send the discussion off the rails before we can even have one. Why even bother commenting?

I have lived here for over two decades. I can tell you categorically that "this time its different". I have never seen this amount of acrimony and nastiness especially coming up to an election...and Trump keeps on day after day pushing the boundaries. I believe it is kind of scary that we have the president going out of his way before the election to cast doubt on the eventual election result and to say point blank "if I lose, it is because the democrats cheated". This is not normal. I am genuinely worried what happens unless it is a Biden blowout victory...but that blowout victory appears to be becoming less and less likely as the election date gets closer.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#13 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:18 am

flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
Why even bother commenting?
I admit it is a continuing mystery to me why you bother commentating. You never bring any value to a discussion, simply repeating the same condescending crap as if you are the arbiter of debate. Ora and Jamie at least occasionally write something worth reading. All we ever get from you is a bucket full of holier than thou attitude and endless paragraphs of tedium.
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
I can tell you categorically that "this time its different".
Yup. That's pretty much exactly what they said last time.

And still no attempt to provide any evidence of my pro-Trump agenda, I see. Can we conclude that you've finally conceded the point? If so, perhaps you might want to stop repeating it over and over and over again?

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Re: US authoritarianism

#14 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:47 am

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:18 am
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
Why even bother commenting?
I admit it is a continuing mystery to me why you bother commentating. You never bring any value to a discussion, simply repeating the same condescending crap as if you are the arbiter of debate. Ora and Jamie at least occasionally write something worth reading. All we ever get from you is a bucket full of holier than thou attitude and endless paragraphs of tedium.
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
I can tell you categorically that "this time its different".
Yup. That's pretty much exactly what they said last time.

And still no attempt to provide any evidence of my pro-Trump agenda, I see. Can we conclude that you've finally conceded the point? If so, perhaps you might want to stop repeating it over and over and over again?
Dear Christ you're fucking tedious.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#15 Post by flash2015 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:26 pm

Octavious wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:18 am
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
Why even bother commenting?
I admit it is a continuing mystery to me why you bother commentating. You never bring any value to a discussion, simply repeating the same condescending crap as if you are the arbiter of debate. Ora and Jamie at least occasionally write something worth reading. All we ever get from you is a bucket full of holier than thou attitude and endless paragraphs of tedium.
So your argument is essentially "I'm rubber you're glue?" How mature of you.

Difficult to make much meaningful input if you continually derail threads with "ad hominem" nonsense and trolling...or start new threads purely to troll.
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:48 pm
I can tell you categorically that "this time its different".
Yup. That's pretty much exactly what they said last time.

And still no attempt to provide any evidence of my pro-Trump agenda, I see. Can we conclude that you've finally conceded the point? If so, perhaps you might want to stop repeating it over and over and over again?
Here we go again. Ignore the specific point I made and just repeat your assertion without evidence. Obviously you either don't know what you are talking about or trolling or both.

I don't see what I need to prove here. It is like proving that the sun rises in the east. You just ignore, give people labels and lead with "ad hominem" attacks against anyone that says Trump may be doing something wrong. In previous threads, like the Harris thread of the BLM thread, you just repeat the Trumpian talking points. I see no nuance, no new information to perhaps expand on your assertion, no lines in the sand to suggest any principles ("Trump doing x is OK but if he did y I would find that problematic") you just state your assertions as fact and call anyone that disagrees a label.

I am trying to understand your claim that you are truly a Lib Dem. Again, I assume you are just trolling but I should try and give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I concentrated too much on Brexit in the past and how strongly you criticized the Lib Dems on this. Perhaps you are in alignment with them on another issue. Let me do some research.

OK, I remember from a previous thread that you think BLM is invalid and they are all just a bunch of Marxists. I thought the Lib Dems were moderates but perhaps this is the position of them too! Let me check:

https://www.libdems.org.uk/black-lives-matter

Darn, let me try again. I remember from a previous thread that you were strongly against the Iran Nuclear deal. This must be the issue that you and the Lib Dems see eye-to-eye on!:

https://www.libdems.org.uk/iran-deal-wi ... l-reckless

OK, struck out again. Perhaps there is some nuance here. Whilst the Lib Dems were for the Iran deal, perhaps like you the Lib Dems were strong supporters of Trump's strike on Soleimani. I specifically remembered how much you agreed with the Trump talking points:

https://www.libdemvoice.org/iran-war-is ... 63021.html
https://swwiltshirelibdems.org.uk/en/ar ... ran-crisis

I give up. You are just trolling, trying to make it appear like a some sort of moderate but your actions (the ad hominem attacks, the labelling, the casual argument dismissals and the troll threads) and views show that you are anything but.

I wait for the nitpicking, the taking of a single sentence to respond to and ignoring the stuff you can't refute, the claims that I misrepresent you without actually clarifying your positions. I have seen it all before. I know your troll games too well. You are such a troll.
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Re: US authoritarianism

#16 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:59 pm

:lol:

You think that the Lib Dems are interested in those issues? You never fail to advertise your ignorance :lol:. Ok, admittedly I take a somewhat different view to the party line regarding Black Lives Matter, but it's not as if I'm a lone voice. There is a decently strong minority with similar concerns to mine. The other issues are so amazingly far down the Lib Dem priority list I doubt most members are even aware of them.

As for Brexit, I was very much against it. One of the primary drivers for me joining the Lib Dems, in fact. That you somehow think otherwise is a pretty damning example of how your personal bias blinds you to the facts. Never let the truth get in the way of your personal narrative.

As for Trump talking points, I have literally no idea what you're talking about. I rarely hear anything Trump has to say and only occasionally venture on to American news sites. I have no idea what Trump's talking points are.

Oh, for your information, Tories are moderate. Lib Dems are moderate. Labour are moderate. Whether I was a Lib Dem or Tory makes no difference. I am about as moderate as you get.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#17 Post by orathaic » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:16 am


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Re: US authoritarianism

#18 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:23 am

The problem is cans of soup, actually.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#19 Post by Randomizer » Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:39 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:23 am
The problem is cans of soup, actually.
Bags of soup can be weaponized accordion to Trump and company.

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Re: US authoritarianism

#20 Post by cormorant » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:38 am

Randomizer wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:39 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:23 am
The problem is cans of soup, actually.
Bags of soup can be weaponized accordion to Trump and company.
Mama
Just spilled a can
Flung chowder at his head
Minestrone, now he’s dead
Mama
Life had just begun
But now I’ve gone and chucked some consommé

https://twitter.com/iucounu/status/1301 ... 21377?s=20

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