US authoritarianism

Any political discussion should go here. This subforum will be moderated differently than other forums.
Forum rules
1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
Message
Author
Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: US authoritarianism

#141 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

Where's ND or ILN to tell us that these were "great people" and that Trump is on a holy crusade to defeat Satanic pedophiles?

MajorMitchell
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:05 am
Location: Now Performing Comedic Artist Dusty Balzac Bush Philosopher from Flyblown Gully by the Sea
Karma: 645

Re: US authoritarianism

#142 Post by MajorMitchell » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:51 pm

They're at One America News

peterlund
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:52 pm
Location: Sverige
Karma: 316
Contact:

Re: US authoritarianism

#143 Post by peterlund » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:33 pm

Carl Bildt (former Swedish Conservative Prime Minister) wrote:
On this dark dark day for the United States my thoughts are with all friends over there who are witnessing their democracy being attacked, looted and disrupted. And my sincere hope is that the evil man who bears the responsibility ultimately will suffer the consequences.
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/13 ... 13312?s=19

flash2015
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 1046

Re: US authoritarianism

#144 Post by flash2015 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:27 pm

Ben Shapiro calls yesterday "the worst thing to happen to the US since 9/11":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ZfmyxmgTA

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: US authoritarianism

#145 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:40 pm

Let's call this what it is, by the way:

An attempted fascist coup, called for by Donald Trump, and organised and led by ACTUAL NAZIS responding to his call.

Republican Congresswoman Mary Miller gave a speech to many of these people saying "Adolf Hitler was right" at a rally in Washington DC the day before, on Tuesday.

Two members of the mob photographed breaking into Nancy Pelosi's office were Nick Fuentes, an avowed holocaust denier, and Tim "Baked Alaska" Gionet, a confirmed Neo-Nazi and anti-semite.

Horns 'n' furs guy, whose image has been all over the internet, is Jake Angeli, and is a leading participant in the batshit crazy "QAnon" group known for his ultra-right-wing views, and who sports a collection of neo-Nazi tattoos.

Some of the violent fascist mob were flying a "KEK" flag modelled directly after the 1938 battle flag of the Nazi Wermacht.

Let us just establish right here and never forget that the following things are facts:

1. This was an attempted Fascist, white supremacist coup, in a country which supposes itself to be a democracy;

2. The outgoing President of the United States addressed these people, openly encouraged them people to do this, and told them "I love you".

Please just remember these two facts whenever this is discussed in future.

orathaic
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 292

Re: US authoritarianism

#146 Post by orathaic » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:14 pm

@Jamie, unfortunately, I don't think it is illegal for Trump to call on them to March. His lawyers would certainly claim he is not responsible for what they did when they got there, as Marchibg and protesting is a 1st amendment right.

On the other hand, he is the president, and as such legal/illegal isn't a question, only the political will to Impeach (he has committed many other crimes which the DoJ can go after him for when his term ends, in fact I would be surprised if the FBI don't have a detailed doiser ready for the next DoJ/AG to indict Trump immediately on leaving office. Whether there is the political will to do so or not is entirely another question.

However, even with that, some of his fans* will continue, especially if Trump is arrested. There is no good outcome that I can see.

flash2015
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 1046

Re: US authoritarianism

#147 Post by flash2015 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:50 am

Wall Street Journal editorial board (WSJ owned by Murdoch) calls on Trump to resign:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-tru ... 1610062773

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: US authoritarianism

#148 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:36 pm

orathaic wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:14 pm
@Jamie, unfortunately, I don't think it is illegal for Trump to call on them to March. His lawyers would certainly claim he is not responsible for what they did when they got there, as Marchibg and protesting is a 1st amendment right.

On the other hand, he is the president, and as such legal/illegal isn't a question, only the political will to Impeach (he has committed many other crimes which the DoJ can go after him for when his term ends, in fact I would be surprised if the FBI don't have a detailed doiser ready for the next DoJ/AG to indict Trump immediately on leaving office. Whether there is the political will to do so or not is entirely another question.

However, even with that, some of his fans* will continue, especially if Trump is arrested. There is no good outcome that I can see.
Maybe it's not illegal, but that's not what I said.

What I said was:

"The outgoing President of the United States addressed these people, openly encouraged them people to do this, and told them "I love you"."

- That is a simple point of fact and should be remembered.
3

Crazy Anglican
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:04 am
Karma: 123

Re: US authoritarianism

#149 Post by Crazy Anglican » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:25 am

I agree with Jamie on this one. Telling the crowd “We'll never take back our nation with weakness!” and Rudy Giuliani calling for “trial by combat” are definitely inciting a riot. The fact that it was the chief executive of the USA directing a mob against the Legislative branch is beyond fiery rhetoric.
3

orathaic
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 292

Re: US authoritarianism

#150 Post by orathaic » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:39 am

@CA, I agree that he incited a mob. But I also listened back carefully, and I think he has plausible deniability, good lawyers might get him off.

Of course, we have seen that impeachment is a political matter. A Senate trial doesn't have to listen to evidence or all any witnesses... If we see political pressure on the remaining Republican senators, it may be possible to hold him to account for this.

Randomizer
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 211

Re: US authoritarianism

#151 Post by Randomizer » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:19 am

The Republican senators that will be voting had to spend hours hiding from that rioting mob. McConnell merely kicked the impeachment can down the road past when he will be Majority Leader and won't have control over the trial phase. Most of them are seeing corporate fund raising being cut off from Trump supporters.

At this point voting to impeach is an easier choice.

Matticus13
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 am
Karma: 402

Re: US authoritarianism

#152 Post by Matticus13 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:50 pm

Randomizer wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:19 am
The Republican senators that will be voting had to spend hours hiding from that rioting mob. McConnell merely kicked the impeachment can down the road past when he will be Majority Leader and won't have control over the trial phase. Most of them are seeing corporate fund raising being cut off from Trump supporters.

At this point voting to impeach is an easier choice.
It won't happen unless Trump legit doubles down and something else major happens before Inauguration Day; they (Republicans) will just hunker down and keep giving generic answers, delay some more, and wait for the dumbasses on the left to start a new controversy/move on to Biden's agenda... This is the way.

orathaic
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1072
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 292

Re: US authoritarianism

#153 Post by orathaic » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:40 am

orathaic wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:39 am
@CA, I agree that he incited a mob. But I also listened back carefully, and I think he has plausible deniability, good lawyers might get him off.

Of course, we have seen that impeachment is a political matter. A Senate trial doesn't have to listen to evidence or all any witnesses... If we see political pressure on the remaining Republican senators, it may be possible to hold him to account for this.
Hey look, a lawyer seems to agree with me.
https://youtu.be/XwqAInN9HWI

Which is the short version of that video.

Do Republican politicians want to alienation Trump supporters by backing impeachmeant? I doubt it.

If some do (the dems only need 17 senators to convict), will those who have be primaried by Trump supporting white supremacists? Almost certainly.

Will the senate/house of representatives kick out/impeach members who have supported Trump and collaborated with these attacks, and/or attempted to overturn the election? I doubt it.

Can you hold an impeachment trial after Trump leaves office? I don't understand.

Is the anger among white supremacist (American Fascists/Patriots) going to continue in the form of violence directed against the federal government and state capitals? Almost certainly.

Is the Democrat controlled federal government going to crack their heads and become even more authoritarian? I suspect so.

This is a lose-lose situation if you ask me. Though Trump remaining in power would certainly have been worse - the fascist protestors agitating for a white ethno-state are almost certainly not going away. But getting them on the wrong side of the state while they push for a 2nd civil war is a pretty big victory.

Randomizer
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 211

Re: US authoritarianism

#154 Post by Randomizer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 am

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/mike-pen ... 40753.html

Pence won't use the 25th Amendment to remove Trump. McConnell believes that Trump committed impeachable offenses, but is waiting to see the Articles of Impreachment.

Le Plume
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:12 pm
Karma: 13

Re: US authoritarianism

#155 Post by Le Plume » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:38 pm

What will the new administration do reverse authoritarian trends? Will they demilitarize the police? Will they end mass incarceration?
These are dehumanizing policies which contribute to an authoritarian and perhaps fascist culture. As an outside observer I can observer the long fight against fascism within the USA. The trend continues. Perhaps the power to reverse the trend lies with the people rather than the federal government, the cabinet, and the president.
1

micha
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:22 am
Karma: 41

Re: US authoritarianism

#156 Post by micha » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:57 pm

Le Plume wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:38 pm
What will the new administration do reverse authoritarian trends? Will they demilitarize the police? Will they end mass incarceration?
These are dehumanizing policies which contribute to an authoritarian and perhaps fascist culture. As an outside observer I can observer the long fight against fascism within the USA. The trend continues. Perhaps the power to reverse the trend lies with the people rather than the federal government, the cabinet, and the president.
Through executive order Biden ended Federal contracts with private prisons. most private prison contracts are with State governments and private contractors are still used for Federal immigration detention. DHS (homeland security) and ICE
(Immigration enforcement) need much more scrutiny

The movement for criminal justice and police reform has won District Attorney positions in Philadelphia, San Francisco and now Los Angeles

In Austin, Seattle, and Los Angeles local measures are diverting serious money from Police departments into other solutions such as mental health support

A lot is happening on the local level, as movements have become more organized over the last several years. If you look at a lot of Biden’s executive orders, the details were able to be put into place quickly because of input from organizers

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest