Kamala Harris Is Biden’s VP Pick

[cormorant]

I did not suggest that you Dipcomrade flash were "getting personal", that suggestion I made regarding a comment from Micha, but the auto scriptcorrecting thingy changed Micha to Michael, so you Dipcomrade flash are absolved of some responsibility for any confusion as to whom I suggested was "getting personal".
The "getting personal" caper is of course fraught with hazards yet can be most rewarding, dependant in part on what form it takes & the whims, stings and flings of fate.

The "not giving a rats" thing was me though. Given he hadn't mentioned the elephant in the room on sexism/racism, I thought perhaps he was messing with me and I wanted him to clarify. If anyone thought I was casting aspersions though, that was not my intention.

I believe everyone should be free to vote their conscience and according to their principles.

But when a principle transforms into a purity test then practical politics become impossible. Martin Luther King had deep ideological divisions with Lyndon Johnson - a man of peace negotiating with the man you escalated the Vietnam war. Yet still they negotiated and forged a deal because both men understood power.

I respect your commitment against gender discrimination in all forms. So surely we can expect your full throated condemnation next time an American politician leverages bigotry against transgender People.

[cormorant]

a lot of people were lukewarm in their support of Hillary, including myself. After the election so many women I care about were in a bit of shock with thoughts like “wow I never realized they hated us THAT much”.

You have successfully identified a growing problem with, particularly American, but increasingly politics across the West. The idea that some people equate not voting for Hillary as showing hate for women, and the various other incarnations of similar thinking. It's easy to dismiss people who hold such views as utter morons who aren't worth bothering with, but as it becomes less and less of a niche idea it becomes more important to challenge this kind of clouded thinking head on.

I see the younger generation stepping up in ways that are really brave and inspiring, so that gives me hope.

An argument that has been used predominantly by the left since time immemorial, and carries as much weight today as in every decade. The young people seem to like us, so all we have to do is wait and we'll win. It's utter tosh, and little more than an excuse not to change. The Democrats will win an election before too long, that is almost certain. It may well be the next one. But it will not have any more to do with a younger generation uniting around left wing principles than any other election, nor indeed when the Republicans win it back.

It wasn’t just that bias against women led them away from Hillary, but more that for so many the well documented misogyny of Trump wasn’t a deal breaker for more people.

This was more the case with white women, as generally people of color were not
Surprised that the explicit racism wasn’t a deal breaker (and for many this was part of Trump’s appeal)


As for the demographics, it’s well documented that Dem support skews younger but also that young people vote at lower rates. 2018 was landmark in that college educated males started to tip towards Dems nationally.

[flash2015]

I did not suggest that you Dipcomrade flash were "getting personal", that suggestion I made regarding a comment from Micha, but the auto scriptcorrecting thingy changed Micha to Michael, so you Dipcomrade flash are absolved of some responsibility for any confusion as to whom I suggested was "getting personal".
The "getting personal" caper is of course fraught with hazards yet can be most rewarding, dependant in part on what form it takes & the whims, stings and flings of fate.

The "not giving a rats" thing was me though. Given he hadn't mentioned the elephant in the room on sexism/racism, I thought perhaps he was messing with me and I wanted him to clarify. If anyone thought I was casting aspersions though, that was not my intention.

I believe everyone should be free to vote their conscience and according to their principles.

But when a principle transforms into a purity test then practical politics become impossible. Martin Luther King had deep ideological divisions with Lyndon Johnson - a man of peace negotiating with the man you escalated the Vietnam war. Yet still they negotiated and forged a deal because both men understood power.

I respect your commitment against gender discrimination in all forms. So surely we can expect your full throated condemnation next time an American politician leverages bigotry against transgender People.

I don't understand this post. Were you really directing it at me...or are you referring to someone else? I am absolutely against purity tests (I hate them with a passion)...and I would absolutely condemn a politician that leverages bigotry against transgender people.

[cormorant]

The "not giving a rats" thing was me though. Given he hadn't mentioned the elephant in the room on sexism/racism, I thought perhaps he was messing with me and I wanted him to clarify. If anyone thought I was casting aspersions though, that was not my intention.

I believe everyone should be free to vote their conscience and according to their principles.

But when a principle transforms into a purity test then practical politics become impossible. Martin Luther King had deep ideological divisions with Lyndon Johnson - a man of peace negotiating with the man you escalated the Vietnam war. Yet still they negotiated and forged a deal because both men understood power.

I respect your commitment against gender discrimination in all forms. So surely we can expect your full throated condemnation next time an American politician leverages bigotry against transgender People.

I don't understand this post. Were you really directing it at me...or are you referring to someone else? I am absolutely against purity tests (I hate them with a passion)...and I would absolutely condemn a politician that leverages bigotry against transgender people.

My bad I clicked ‘respond‘ in the wrong post. This was directed to Matticus’ reasoning

"Should Biden pick a man, woman, or should gender matter?"

I suspect you would have a majority of respondents answer *gender shouldn't matter*

This is the perspective we should be using, IMO. That's why I'm not a Democrat anymore. Best of luck in the election. It will be an absolute miracle if Joe doesn't find a way to miss this layup.

[Matticus13]

I believe everyone should be free to vote their conscience and according to their principles.

But when a principle transforms into a purity test then practical politics become impossible. Martin Luther King had deep ideological divisions with Lyndon Johnson - a man of peace negotiating with the man you escalated the Vietnam war. Yet still they negotiated and forged a deal because both men understood power.

I respect your commitment against gender discrimination in all forms. So surely we can expect your full throated condemnation next time an American politician leverages bigotry against transgender People.

I don't understand this post. Were you really directing it at me...or are you referring to someone else? I am absolutely against purity tests (I hate them with a passion)...and I would absolutely condemn a politician that leverages bigotry against transgender people.

My bad I clicked ‘respond‘ in the wrong post. This was directed to Matticus’ reasoning

"Should Biden pick a man, woman, or should gender matter?"

I suspect you would have a majority of respondents answer *gender shouldn't matter*

This is the perspective we should be using, IMO. That's why I'm not a Democrat anymore. Best of luck in the election. It will be an absolute miracle if Joe doesn't find a way to miss this layup.

Listen Micha, if you don't like my reasoning here that's fine. My OP was never even intended to be critical of the Democratic Party or it's process for vetting VPs. If you can't tell that I'm against discrimination (in all forms) by Page 8 of this thread...

The thread just took on a life of it's own when Octavious put the process on blast (which it arguably deserves). I never said that the VP vetting process is more important than any other issues we face currently in society.

What's with all the cheap shots questioning my (and others) standing on other issues? That's what MM took issue with. That's what I take issue with.

You don't know me. I don't know you. I'm staying on point here.

If you want to discuss issues facing the transgender community, let's go do that on another thread. I'm sure we may have a few differences of opinion, we will be at least in the same neighborhood.

[flash2015]

I don't know how much you follow these threads but Octavious pretty much always gives a pass to Trump whatever he says or does so questioning his sudden "racism and sexism" outrage when he hasn't cared in the past is absolutely 100% valid.

You have at least recognized that Trump is not the best (apologize for assuming you were the same as Oct)...and I can understand at some level that the process was not ideal. Though again the hyperbole about it is still a bit much especially when you consider the racism and sexism being blasted from the Oval Office.

[Matticus13]

I don't know how much you follow these threads but Octavious pretty much always gives a pass to Trump whatever he says or does so questioning his sudden "racism and sexism" outrage when he hasn't cared in the past is absolutely 100% valid.

You have at least recognized that Trump is not the best (apologize for assuming you were the same as Oct)...and I can understand at some level that the process was not ideal. Though again the hyperbole about it is still a bit much especially when you consider the racism and sexism being blasted from the Oval Office.

Echo chambers are not ideal on a forum dedicated to politics. Simply dismissing others who see the world from a different perspective is not something I would recommend.

Not trying to be condescending, simply stating my opinion.

[Octavious]

I don't know how much you follow these threads but Octavious pretty much always gives a pass to Trump whatever he says or does so questioning his sudden "racism and sexism" outrage when he hasn't cared in the past is absolutely 100% valid.

You have at least recognized that Trump is not the best (apologize for assuming you were the same as Oct)...and I can understand at some level that the process was not ideal. Though again the hyperbole about it is still a bit much especially when you consider the racism and sexism being blasted from the Oval Office.

Pretty much always? Do provide some examples. Why not dig up some pro-Trump threads I've made, perhaps. See how many you can find

Does it not worry you at all that there are virtually no republican voices left on this site? There used to be quite a wide spectrum of views, but it has narrowed spectacularly. Does that not bother you at all?

[MajorMitchell]

I can understand Republican supporters having some reticence in publicly defending Trump and his policies and actions so might I suggest that attributing a lack of vociferous Republicans​ posting to defend Trump in our webdiplomacy Forum with more Decorum to the myth of politically motivated censorship is something of a non sequitur, a convenient confection.
I remarked about the danger of democrats failing to face their own weaknesses, that also applies to Republicans. If anything the Republican Party is hostage a dangerous destructive President with little interest in the long term success of the Republican Party.

[MajorMitchell]

.. hostage to a dangerous..

[orathaic]

I'm afraid Republican and Democrat aren't the only or only valid view points.

Given how few of us are left regularly posting, I'm not sure if you will find many of either. I definitely don't see myself aligned with the Democrats. War-mongering capitalists the lots of them!

[flash2015]

I don't know how much you follow these threads but Octavious pretty much always gives a pass to Trump whatever he says or does so questioning his sudden "racism and sexism" outrage when he hasn't cared in the past is absolutely 100% valid.

You have at least recognized that Trump is not the best (apologize for assuming you were the same as Oct)...and I can understand at some level that the process was not ideal. Though again the hyperbole about it is still a bit much especially when you consider the racism and sexism being blasted from the Oval Office.

Echo chambers are not ideal on a forum dedicated to politics. Simply dismissing others who see the world from a different perspective is not something I would recommend.

Not trying to be condescending, simply stating my opinion.

Criticism != censorship

I am absolutely not promoting an echo chamber. If anything I am more against censorship and echo chambers than most of those that claim to be "free speech" campaigners (many of them care only care about speech they agree with). It would be difficult to confirm but I bet I seek out and read/watch more stuff that I personally disagree with than anyone on this board...specifically so I can better understand it. I actively complain on here and other sites when other people's speech gets censored even when I strongly disagree with that speech. I created a place on nextdoor for my neighbourhood to provide a space for the Trump types to be able to vent and for me to interact with them (usually nextdoor censor political topics).

However I will always strongly criticise arguments that are no more than "talking points". I am against people that argue merely to mock others opinions (not so much in this thread but I have seen it in others)...which is one of the worst cancers of the Trump era. Give me a rational basis for an argument and give me some intellectual consistency so I can be confident this is more than just a tribal thing...or an "own the libs, LOL" thing.

And BTW I am not a democrat.

[Matticus13]

The Not Democrats sounds like a perfect 3rd party! Would certainly be popular here in the Midwest.

[cormorant]

I don't understand this post. Were you really directing it at me...or are you referring to someone else? I am absolutely against purity tests (I hate them with a passion)...and I would absolutely condemn a politician that leverages bigotry against transgender people.

My bad I clicked ‘respond‘ in the wrong post. This was directed to Matticus’ reasoning

"Should Biden pick a man, woman, or should gender matter?"

I suspect you would have a majority of respondents answer *gender shouldn't matter*

This is the perspective we should be using, IMO. That's why I'm not a Democrat anymore. Best of luck in the election. It will be an absolute miracle if Joe doesn't find a way to miss this layup.

Listen Micha, if you don't like my reasoning here that's fine. My OP was never even intended to be critical of the Democratic Party or it's process for vetting VPs. If you can't tell that I'm against discrimination (in all forms) by Page 8 of this thread...

The thread just took on a life of it's own when Octavious put the process on blast (which it arguably deserves). I never said that the VP vetting process is more important than any other issues we face currently in society

Didn’t You cite the VP selection process as an example of why you could no longer be a Democrat? Perhaps I misunderstood that bit.

What's with all the cheap shots questioning my (and others) standing on other issues? That's what MM took issue with. That's what I take issue with.

As Joe Biden says , the very soul of America is at stake in this election. This might be our last chance to fend off Autocracy in the US, so when folks refuse to be part of this coalition at this time it’s worth it IMO to understand what’s exactly preventing people from identifying as part of it.

[cormorant]

I don't know how much you follow these threads but Octavious pretty much always gives a pass to Trump whatever he says or does so questioning his sudden "racism and sexism" outrage when he hasn't cared in the past is absolutely 100% valid.

You have at least recognized that Trump is not the best (apologize for assuming you were the same as Oct)...and I can understand at some level that the process was not ideal. Though again the hyperbole about it is still a bit much especially when you consider the racism and sexism being blasted from the Oval Office.

Echo chambers are not ideal on a forum dedicated to politics. Simply dismissing others who see the world from a different perspective is not something I would recommend.

Not trying to be condescending, simply stating my opinion.

Criticism != censorship

I am absolutely not promoting an echo chamber. If anything I am more against censorship and echo chambers than most of those that claim to be "free speech" campaigners (many of them care only care about speech they agree with). It would be difficult to confirm but I bet I seek out and read/watch more stuff that I personally disagree with than anyone on this board...specifically so I can better understand it. I actively complain on here and other sites when other people's speech gets censored even when I strongly disagree with that speech. I created a place on nextdoor for my neighbourhood to provide a space for the Trump types to be able to vent and for me to interact with them (usually nextdoor censor political topics).

However I will always strongly criticise arguments that are no more than "talking points". I am against people that argue merely to mock others opinions (not so much in this thread but I have seen it in others)...which is one of the worst cancers of the Trump era. Give me a rational basis for an argument and give me some intellectual consistency so I can be confident this is more than just a tribal thing...or an "own the libs, LOL" thing.

And BTW I am not a democrat.

From the points you made I’d guess you are a Dem leaning independent? What would the Democrats have to do to make you comfortable joining the party?

[peterlund]

Well I wrote the below on this forum more than a year ago. :)

It feels like Kamala is the best shot the dems have to beat the shithead out of office.

Both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders feels like old tired men that that both looks even more like dead ducks than the shithead does.

To me it seems like only Kamala has the fighting spirit that is required.