Political statement on homepage

[MajorMitchell]

Well one point in.favour of the webdiplomacy banner that is undeniable, is that it won't cause any extra CV19 infections or deaths.so.in that respect, it's the sort of thing you, Octavious if I'm not mistaken, are advocating that people to do as an alternative to public protests.. Using a CV19 safe public website and it's Forum with more Decorum.
How's that jmo?

[Octavious]

You are a little, Major. My objection to the banner is primarily that by standing in solidarity with a mass protest movement you are showing support for mass protests, and in the current pandemic mass protests will result in a significant number of completely avoidable deaths along with a much greater number of serious illnesses.

More generally I think that webDip is daft for engaging in any political campaigning whatsoever, especially when it's dedicated so much of the last few years to making itself a purely diplomacy site and limiting political discussion to the bare minimum. But webDip are perfectly entitled to be daft if they wish to be. I only condemn it in this instance because the daftness is encouraging action that will kill people.

[Octavious]

How far is one allowed to take a disagreement with the banner before one violates rule 5? Some sort of an idea of where a line is would be nice, as things are now construed as racist that two years ago most wouldn't even have noticed.

It's very hard to know what is and isn't racist these days. Take the Suffragettes, for example. Black Lives Matter say they are white supremacists who worked to advance white power. So, as webDip is in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, clearly showing support for the Suffragettes is racist.

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/899556 ... 37058?s=19

[Octavious]

Not as racist as the British government, of course, who committed the extremely racist act of appointing Munira Mirza to head a racism enquiry.

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/127280 ... 18917?s=19

[Octavious]

And the existence of prisons is racist, of course. If you don't want to abolish prisons you're probably being racist.

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/809880 ... 25728?s=19

[Octavious]

Black lives matter also want to dismantle capitalism, abolish the police, open borders, and believe that big charities are little more than colonisers of the modern age. So unless you're a hardcore socialist who refuses to give to charity, you're probably racist.

Either that or Black Lives Matter are a bunch of political extremist lunatics who WebDip should be ashamed at standing in solidarity with.

[orathaic]

Charities as a demonstration of the failure of capitalism (ie
market forces failing to provide for the needs of people - ie the one thing capitalist economies are 'supposed' to be good at doing). So being critical of that goes hand in hand with dismantling capitalism.

You can take the view that it is great that a ~100 year old veteran is great for raising so much money for NHS charities, or you can admit the Tory policies have created a need, so desperate that an elderly man, who fought for his country now has to step up once again.

1. Taking the position that you know better for a historical oppressed and enslaved community is a fantastic demonstration of how racist ideas have managed to stick around. Just more of the White man's burden. Well done.

2. Pretending it is just 2 murders by police beautifully illustrates your ignorance. Systemic racism has already killed more PoC per capita from corona virus than white folks. And aside from that, police don't just kill, they always engage in day to day harassment, how you think any of this is justifiable is beyond me.

[Octavious]

I fully understand why you support the hard socialist campaign group as you have never pretended to be anything other than a hard socialist. I do, however, think that it's rather poor to try and force your agenda into the mainstream under the cover of an apparent struggle against racism. Once again the minority communities are being used as pawns in age old political power struggles. You must be so proud of yourself.

[orathaic]

I personally, am not trying to force anything.

The fact that capitalism is a system of exploitation (to maximizer profits) and that it often uses racism as one of it's methods to make that exploitation easier, is not at all 'forced'. If those communities - which have been advocating socialist ideals* for longer than I've been alive - choose to advocate for themselves in the street.

*you will note the FBI campaign against the civil rights movement, their execution of Malcolm X, and MLK's advocacy for poor white Americans to join the movement directly leading up to his murder.

The white supremacy and opposing socialist and anti-racist group nothing new.

Your understanding of history is very poor indeed.

[MajorMitchell]

Sounds like that grudging admission that I'm a little bit correct Octavious is a bit like a diagnosis that Lovely Princess Estelle is a little bit pregnant.

I note that nowhere in the banner posted is a mention of mass protests. The proposition that there is clear support for mass public protests as a form of activism, and not other forms of activism is your interpretation of what is actually posted.

By using a cv19 safe public website and it's Forum with more Decorum to make a statement of solidarity with minority communities around the world and the BLM against state sanctioned violence, surely the default interpretation is support expressed in a CV19 safe public way and therefore with intent to encourage activism in similar forms.

There is no mention of mass public protests. You Octavious are inserting that and choosing that interpretation of intent by webdiplomacy in the type of activism being promoted.
How is a banner here that expresses solidarity.and die not mention mass public protests linked, coupled with mass public protests?

As popular as our Forum with more Decorum is, I doubt if it will.send people out into the streets to protest, if anything our banner will encourage.discussions and conversations across other social interweb platforms & chatty rooms not mass gatherings.

[Octavious]

Major, if you are seriously trying to argue that a banner proclaiming solidarity with thr Black Lives Matter protest group, published at the time when they had begun a wave of international headline grabbing mass protests, does not actually have anything to do with the protests, then it is no longer worth discussing the point further. I not only disagree, but fail to see how any reasonable man could reach such a conclusion.

I am curious, though. Does this mean that you believe webDip are against such protests?

[orathaic]

https://twitter.com/notcolloquial/statu ... 96768?s=19

[MajorMitchell]

Well I can only go on the actual, specific wording of the banner, an expression of solidarity in a CV19 safe public website and it's Forum with more Decorum.The banner neither specifically encourages nor specifically discourages mass public protests.
The fact that it's activism in a CV19 safe public virtual/interwebby environment would suggest that is the form of expressing support for BLM it encourages.
I'm not the one who is tasked with proving that within the words used in the banner there is clear and specific encouragement of mass public protests.
I only have to demonstrate ressonable doubt that there is a clear and specific encouragement in the wording of the banner that encourages mass public protests.
You're the one who is making the proposition that there is in the wording of the banner that clear and specific encouragement to engage in mass public protests and the burden of proving that lies with you. Bon chance.

[Octavious]

Burden of proof? What on earth are you talking about? This is a discussion, not a court of law. You've been watching too many crime dramas, mate.

But if webDip representatives wish to come out and condemn protests during the time of the pandemic, and adjust their banner to make this clear to avoid any misunderstandings that will increase the risk of deaths, I will be more than happy to concede the point.

[MajorMitchell]

I think your expectation that a statement condemning mass public protests is disproportionate to the risk you claim mass public protests cause vis a vis the cause supported by the BLM activists.
The best you could reasonably expect is a statement that advises public protesters to take appropriate measures to minimise risks of CV19 transmission and to pursue​ blm activism in CV19 safe ways.

I'll take it as a compliment that you thought my post legalistic from which I infer that you appreciated it's logical construction and rigour.
I note that you used this compliment as a deflection and avoided challenging, disputing or refuting the content and import of the post.

[MajorMitchell]

If the concept that a person making a proposition is required to demonstrate it's validity or truth is to you Octavious, a bit of "a crime drama" on TV then let me gently hint that it's principle of some use in both sciences and philosophy.

[New England Fire Squad]

How far is one allowed to take a disagreement with the banner before one violates rule 5? Some sort of an idea of where a line is would be nice, as things are now construed as racist that two years ago most wouldn't even have noticed.

It's very hard to know what is and isn't racist these days. Take the Suffragettes, for example. Black Lives Matter say they are white supremacists who worked to advance white power. So, as webDip is in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, clearly showing support for the Suffragettes is racist.

https://twitter.com/ukblm/status/899556 ... 37058?s=19

i've been told that to ask questions is racist, to not ask questions is racist, to protest is racist, to not protest is racist, and that my speaking up/silence are both the epitome of white privelidge. Oh, and Lincoln's statue needs to come down. The one that really got to me though was Washington. If his statue needs to come down then in my humble opinion this country should break up. If we can't agree on respecting the father of our country, then we probably don't have much to say to each other.

[Jamiet99uk]

@New England Fire Squad:

Are you a religious person? A Christian?

Genuine question, not trolling, promise my next response will be a constructive one!

[New England Fire Squad]

@New England Fire Squad:

Are you a religious person? A Christian?

Genuine question, not trolling, promise my next response will be a constructive one!

I am, although before you moralize, I recall that you're the guy who said that sad internet virgins should cut their dicks off, so please forgive me if I take your virtue signalling soap box with a grain of salt.

[Jamiet99uk]

I recall that you're the guy who said that sad internet virgins should cut their dicks off, so please forgive me if I take your virtue signalling soap box with a grain of salt.

Okay, first of all, I genuinely have no idea what this refers to.