Coup d'État in the UK

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Octavious
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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#41 Post by Octavious » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:38 am

orathaic wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:21 am
Octavious wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:01 pm
Yes... I recall you using the phrase "one party democracy" before... The passage of time hasn't made it any more convincing, I have to say.
I continue to not claim this is a good thing. Just that painting them as 'evil' lacks nuance and plays only into the propoganda of their rivals.

Just as painting the US as 'the lands of the free', as some kind of democratic paradise beyond all corruption, oppression or problems would be naive
Who was painting them as evil? You'd have to be some kind of complete muppet to label an entire nation as evil, even if you think some of their actions qualify as such.

But China are deeply wrong in how they run a nation, much to the disadvantage of the Chinese people. I firmly believe that a free and liberal democracy is the ideal, and whilst the US falls some way short of that at least their aspirations are in the right direction. The aspirations of a great many of the people of Hong Kong are also in the right direction.
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Verming
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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#42 Post by Verming » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:50 pm

The successful "coup" in the UK is that of the Remain establishment against the narrow, but clear answer given by the electorate to a straghtforward question. When the Leave vote is overridden, either directly by Parlt or a "vote again peasants but this time vote correctly" rigged 2nd referendum, we will have a situation where many many millions of tax-paying, decent , law abiding Brits will consider the political settlement imposed on them against their wishes by the EU and its collaborators as hostile and completely illegitimate. God knows what happens then.
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orathaic
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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#43 Post by orathaic » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:02 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:38 am
orathaic wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:21 am
Octavious wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:01 pm
Yes... I recall you using the phrase "one party democracy" before... The passage of time hasn't made it any more convincing, I have to say.
I continue to not claim this is a good thing. Just that painting them as 'evil' lacks nuance and plays only into the propoganda of their rivals.

Just as painting the US as 'the lands of the free', as some kind of democratic paradise beyond all corruption, oppression or problems would be naive
Who was painting them as evil? You'd have to be some kind of complete muppet to label an entire nation as evil, even if you think some of their actions qualify as such.

But China are deeply wrong in how they run a nation, much to the disadvantage of the Chinese people. I firmly believe that a free and liberal democracy is the ideal, and whilst the US falls some way short of that at least their aspirations are in the right direction. The aspirations of a great many of the people of Hong Kong are also in the right direction.
You should talk to some people about China and Communism some time. There are many who believe the anti-Chinese propoganda.

And whether they can distinguish between the state (govt, party, civil service etc) and the nation is questionable. Most state who go to war do not have the complete support of every individual, thus if you are a pacifist it is much easier to paint a state as evil than a nation (the people).

Still, you think the Chinese people have aspiration any less well intentioned than the US? If we're going to judge people by only their aspirations... Well at least we can do so equally... I'm certain that even the individual in the Chinese state mechanisms aspire to do the best they can for the nation. Not so sure the same can be said for Trump (unlike his supporters)...

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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#44 Post by orathaic » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:16 pm

And just focusing on the 'free and Liberal' part of the US. You would think that this applies to business, but in some things China is much freer.

Things like this don't happen in China: https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44601668
An American-Irish friend recently pointed this out to me, after he had visited China. In China if you want to sell food on the street, all you need is a cart and some food. No regulation, no permits, no barrier to entering the market. In America wealth businesses have all the advantages because they can afford to overcome these hurdles with ease, while poverty is essentially illegal.

taylor4
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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#45 Post by taylor4 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:35 pm

Link bbc.com/newsbeat-44601668 does not compute in the US, because bbc.co.uk here only leads to Auntie Beeb's Newsbeat.
Pray tell, what was subject - comparing Marlborough's Blenheim overreach vis a vis Sinologists' idees fixes on corruption trials - or has it all hit the '84 Memory Hole ?

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Re: Coup d'État in the UK

#46 Post by orathaic » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:38 am

Article title: "Permit Patty: Woman 'calls police' on eight-year-old for selling water"

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