US Government Shutdown

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`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo`
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#21 Post by `ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:38 pm
The very fact that this ridiculous way of (for want of a better word) running things has been allowed to continue by both Republican and Democrat governments shows that both sides are unfit to rule. There are times that America is truly a global laughing stock.
Yeah, I would much rather have a multi-party system in America, like many other countries, so we wouldn't have this problem. But who's ever going to take the Green Tea Libertarian Parties seriously?

Someday I'm going to create the Stats party that's political leader is a super computer that does surveys and statistical analysis to form the most bipartisan opinions possible. Stats 2020?

ksako8
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#22 Post by ksako8 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 pm

Our government never shuts down. Funding continues based on the prior year budget, if there is no new budget agreed. We also have a government budget surplus, and a debt/GDP ratio that is half of that of the USA. Why do the citizens of the USA tolerate this behaviour from the two major parties?

JamesYanik
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#23 Post by JamesYanik » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:08 am

This is an obvious bias tester:

when Republicans stalled under Obama and caused a shutdown, who did you blame?

now Democrats are stalling under Trump, who are you blaming?


there's 3 different scenarios for:

1. the shutdown is bad, and it's on the minority party
2. the shutdown is bad, and it's on the majority party
3. I like the shutdown only if it is against my political views

now for all the "shock" value out there, you have to ask yourself if you're being consistent. if you really like number 3, and don't care about a shut-down, then that's that, good on you. but if at ANY POINT since the last shutdown, you have argued for 1 or 2, have your opinions changed?
(PS: mandatory gov't services still funded, even in shutdown)

personally, I think Republicans bear the most blame here. Trump even said he wants a DACA bill, but the Republican Party is such a mess... it really is a matter of failure to coordinate.

at the same time, the DACA bill seems to be an inevitable occurrence. the fact the Dems are going against other points (funding for wall) kind of shows there hand in the politics of it all. if we do get a shutdown, but Trump SWITCHES back to anti-DACA (not impossible, the man can't be predicted - yes that's a bad thing) then they'll have a real mess on their hands

JamesYanik
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#24 Post by JamesYanik » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:11 am

`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 pm
Yeah, I would much rather have a multi-party system in America, like many other countries, so we wouldn't have this problem. But who's ever going to take the Green Tea Libertarian Parties seriously?
But... we don't have a 2-party system. we have a multi-party system which 2 parties dominate. there's a BIG difference there.

even like Germany has the SPD and CDU, and Britain is frankly the Labour-conservative.

sure they use coalitions to REALLY get those numbers up, but I GUARANTEE you that libertarians move over to the Republican side, and Greens to the Democrat, when the actual voting starts for the people, acting as an informal coalition

Ogion
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#25 Post by Ogion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:32 am

The odd thing is that the UK has more than two parties. Generally, first past the post system has to have two parties, otherwise the wing that is split loses and the unified wing wins.

I suppose it's a bit on both parties, because the two big GOP shutdowns happened because the GOP held out for things they knew were absolute non-starters. (The 2013 was because they wanted to have a repeal of Obamacare. Seriously?) Here, the Democrats are holding out for a policy that everyone pretty much agrees with, and declining to support an over-the-top GOP deal breaker.

I suppose I blame the party holding out for something that's clearly a partisan priority. Here, also, I think that it'd be foolish for Democrats to cave (again) Don't bring a tea spoon to a gunfight.

CAPT Brad
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#26 Post by CAPT Brad » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:00 am

Ogion, why are you still here. Oh, chasing ambulances, eh?

CAPT Brad
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#27 Post by CAPT Brad » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:03 am

I say shutdown the government. Then people will realize how unnecessary much of it is. We should shut off all payments to non government people too. All do those entitlement programs. See how long the democrats hold off then.

Ogion
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#28 Post by Ogion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:43 am

Sure. Entitlement programs including the military.

And Capt Brad, I'd stop displaying your complete ignorance. I realize that would mean not speaking, but do try.

(Hint: few lawyers do trial work.)

Jeff Kuta
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#29 Post by Jeff Kuta » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:18 am

6 Republicans defect from majority and gummint is shut down.

Can’t control their own caucus. Feeble 45

JamesYanik
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#30 Post by JamesYanik » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:50 am

@Ogion

the military still gets funding during a gov't shut down...

do you actually know what's going on?

Ogion
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#31 Post by Ogion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:16 am

More than you do, apparently, James. Capt Brad said "We should shut off all payments to non government people too. All do those entitlement programs."

And I said, yes, and to entitlementsincluding the military. (i.e., the military is also an entitlement/welfare program, and in fact the richest socialism in the country: Free health care, free housing, free college. It's a socialist paradise, frankly.)

Ogion
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#32 Post by Ogion » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:16 am

Do try to keep up, James

JamesYanik
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#33 Post by JamesYanik » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 am

sorry @Ogion
I didn't read In Capt's comment the "too" part, i thought he JUST meant "We should shut off all payments to non government people" but he meant it along with the entire gov't

my bad

Octavious
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#34 Post by Octavious » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:34 am

`ZaZaMaRaNDaBo` wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:17 pm
Octavious wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:38 pm
The very fact that this ridiculous way of (for want of a better word) running things has been allowed to continue by both Republican and Democrat governments shows that both sides are unfit to rule. There are times that America is truly a global laughing stock.
Yeah, I would much rather have a multi-party system in America, like many other countries, so we wouldn't have this problem. But who's ever going to take the Green Tea Libertarian Parties seriously?

Someday I'm going to create the Stats party that's political leader is a super computer that does surveys and statistical analysis to form the most bipartisan opinions possible. Stats 2020?
I don't understand why the number of parties is relevant. There simply shouldn't be a system where everything grinds to a halt because a vote isn't passed. It's just a really stupid way of doing things.

Stressedlines
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#35 Post by Stressedlines » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Octavius has the right of it Neither party is fit to rule Neither has our best interest at heart.

ziran
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#36 Post by ziran » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:03 pm

Stressedlines wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:06 pm
Octavius has the right of it Neither party is fit to rule Neither has our best interest at heart.
this.

Jamiet99uk
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#37 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:15 pm

I love the fact that according to ND, 200,000 illegal immigrants simultaneously entered the US in the space of a couple of minutes last night.

I don't always agree with Octavious but he's spot on in this thread.

Americans, your system is fucked. There are things I'd like to see improved about the way things are run here in the UK, but this kind of nonsense would never happen here.

MajorMitchell
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#38 Post by MajorMitchell » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:53 pm

Don't worry Jeff, Trump is not a "properly functioning" POTUS irrespective of whether this short term funding bill gets through or not. I watched a few US PBS TV news programs, and Trump's Twitter "jibber~jabber" demonstrated his ignorance with one example being his getting completely wrong the details on the time extension for (I think) the CHIPS health program for children in this proposed funding bill.
Trump is certainly great for the late night that hosts to satarise.

MajorMitchell
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#39 Post by MajorMitchell » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:54 pm

Typos..late night TV hosts..

Jamiet99uk
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Re: US Government Shutdown

#40 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:47 pm

Why is editing disabled in the politics sub-webbit?

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