Female Athlete Pay

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Matticus13
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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#21 Post by Matticus13 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:19 am

Did a little research and found out that men and women are making the same in professional tennis when competing in the French/Australian Open.

https://www.rolandgarros.com/en-us/arti ... t-revealed

https://ausopen.com/articles/news/recor ... -open-2019

I suspect the same is true for the other major tournaments. Too lazy to confirm. Since the tourneys happen simultaneously, they split the same pot equally.

I do think this solution is unique, and likely only can be done with a sport like tennis. In theory, you could build the venues and have simultaneous tournament style events. In practice, I am less optimistic.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#22 Post by peterlund » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:18 am

It's quite simple actually. Sports is an entertainment industry that generates revenue for the people arranging and broadcasting it. Athletes payment is relative to how big these revenues are. I do not think about this as a gender equality issue normally.

But in the case of Wimbledon price money it's a bit different since both men and women play at the same time in the same tournament. It is hard if not impossible to determine the relative market value of the 2 halves of the tournament, so having equal price money for men and women seems like the easiest way to handle it.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#23 Post by MajorMitchell » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:24 pm

The Forbes magazine recently published a list of the wealthiest athletes, their "top 100" type of thing. Very few women in that list. The list revealed some interesting stuff. Naturally the top three played soccer, reflecting the amount of money at the elite level in a number of countries, so what sport an athlete chooses influences their potential earnings & opportunities to earn "indirect" income from endorsements/advertising.

One request I have is that hockey is identified more clearly, between ice hockey and what I call field hockey. I'd suggest that globally more people participate in field hockey than ice hockey despite the popularity of ice hockey in North America & northern Europe.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#24 Post by Tom Bombadil » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:45 pm

peterlund wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:18 am
It's quite simple actually. Sports is an entertainment industry that generates revenue for the people arranging and broadcasting it. Athletes payment is relative to how big these revenues are. I do not think about this as a gender equality issue normally.

But in the case of Wimbledon price money it's a bit different since both men and women play at the same time in the same tournament. It is hard if not impossible to determine the relative market value of the 2 halves of the tournament, so having equal price money for men and women seems like the easiest way to handle it.
Yes, currently women are paid much less in most sports because they don't bring in nearly as much revenue. Isn't that a failure on the part of society though? I guess I don't buy very much the argument that it is simply because men are physically "better" at most sports. If that was the case, nobody would watch mens college athletics because its not as good as pro, but college football and basketball are just as big as their professional leagues. Hell, I bet more people go to mens high school basketball games than some WNBA games.


Also, totally unrelated, but MM reminded me that I find it really weird that where I wen to high school the guys could play ice hockey and the women field hockey. My understanding that field hockey is a big sport for both genders elsewhere, and certainly not a big sport in the United States so its weird that it is high school sport.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#25 Post by Octavious » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:25 pm

Tom Bombadil wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:45 pm
. If that was the case, nobody would watch mens college athletics because its not as good as pro, but college football and basketball are just as big as their professional leagues
I think that the US is very unusual in this regard. Pretty much everywhere top tier sport commands far larger live and television audiences than lower tier and amateur equivalents.
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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#26 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 am

@ Octavious

a little off topic ..

I just realised the first line of this thread.

"So I'm having a debate with myself and am very conflicted "

if your debating with yourself and a whole heap of others are as well is that a Mass Debate you are having ?

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#27 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:19 am

@ Peter Lund .. I dont htink Sport in itself is a entertainment industry ..its the broadcasting of sort that is...maybe if we keeo up the pressure with current tech trends a bit like by a record or tape to get one song in the past we will subscribe to watch an individual athlete or team and the money will go directly to them rather tahn via a TV or publishing network that ups the price.

In Australia we used tio have free to air TV for nearly everything its only when private compnaies purchase rights that the salaries and price goes yp..

roll on tech lets get outta this monopoly bubble..

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#28 Post by orathaic » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:31 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:25 pm
Tom Bombadil wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:45 pm
. If that was the case, nobody would watch mens college athletics because its not as good as pro, but college football and basketball are just as big as their professional leagues
I think that the US is very unusual in this regard. Pretty much everywhere top tier sport commands far larger live and television audiences than lower tier and amateur equivalents.
Actually, I suspect ireland is unusual in this. We have soccer and rugby international teams, and they are very popular. And more local teams are professional, though most soccer players go to English leagues to make decent money.

Meanwhile we also have the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA), which includes games like Gaelic football (or football as we call it) and Hurling, (with rounders, camóige, handball, and ladies football). All amateur sports, which are really popular due to their origin. OK, they still vary in popularity... With Football and Hurling being by far the biggest... (camóige is like field hockey, and rounders like baseball/cricket).

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#29 Post by Crazy Anglican » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:36 pm

Tom Bombadil wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:29 am
...while they have the same job, the produce a different product and thus the pay can be different. Two salespeople can have the same job and make different amounts of money based on how many sales they make. Male NBA players bring in exponentially more revenue via ticket sales, advertising revenue, tv revenue etc., compared to WNBA players, so they should get paid based on what they produce....
By this reasoning, women's beach volleyball players should get paid scad's more than men.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#30 Post by Senlac » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:27 pm

I probably have a minority opinion here, but I’ll make it anyway.

In all competitive fields of employment (such as professional sport) & hundreds of others, I’m beginning to find it hard to believe gender (or race, religion etc) have any relevance any more.

If a black, Buddhist, women turned out to be the best football manager in the Premier League (a la Pep Guardiola) wouldn’t she not only be lauded as a genius & definitely paid the most £££!

It’s about talent folks. The only time pay can be manipulated to achieve gender equality is when the employment under consideration is non-competitive.
I was a salesman for 20 years & at times earned far less than female colleagues, because at the time they were better than me. I also on occasion earned vastly more than female colleagues. It was never about gender. It was always about ability.

There are more girls attending law school than boys. In not much time the legal profession will be dominated by very well paid women. Will we then start bitching that the men aren’t paid enough on the basis of gender equality? I sure hope not. Folks need to get over this equality nonsense & focus on being the best & earning appropriately.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#31 Post by Tom Bombadil » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:02 pm

I disagree on the premise that it is about talent.

It’s about entertainment. When I watch the Olympics I am just as entertained about the women swimming event compared to the men’s - even though the men are faster.

I content that most casual fans would be hard pressed to tell the difference in many sports such as hockey/tennis/golf if they players genders weren’t apparent.

It’s a failure of marketing. Serena Williams would not be able to beat male players - yet she is marketed and brings in huge draws.

I don’t think I enjoy watching golf less when women drive it 250 yards instead of 300. And I don’t think the vast majority of people would either.

Talent plays a role, but if contest that most people care about entertainment over talent. Otherwise nobody would watch college basketball during NBA season.

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#32 Post by Octavious » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:29 pm

Tom Bombadil wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:02 pm
I content that most casual fans would be hard pressed to tell the difference in many sports such as hockey/tennis/golf if they players genders weren’t apparent.
I disagree. I watched England vs Australia at T20 cricket a couple of years ago, and they put the women's event on immediately before the men's. The women's game was decent enough, but I was amazing at how inferior to the men's game it was. I was expecting the men's game to be better, but the scale of dominance in all areas of the game was astounding.

You seem to be suggesting that all that's important is a close competition rather than elite competition. I disagree. Close competition is important, but the average sports fan appreciates skill and can easily differentiate world class performances from merely good performances.
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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#33 Post by Senlac » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:07 pm

“It’s a failure of marketing. Serena Williams would not be able to beat male players - yet she is marketed and brings in huge draws.”

If this were the case, why aren’t hot shot female marketing execs taking advantage of market opportunities other than Serena? They could simultaneously prove how good they are, earn a fortune & help some “underpaid” female sportswomen.

An opportunity not to be missed, unless it’s not actually an opportunity...

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#34 Post by Smokey Gem » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:53 pm

Don't go WC history ..look up Archie Thompson Australian Striker..

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#35 Post by Stressedlines » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:27 pm

Ok..as gar as college sports goes only the best teams gain the type of TV ratings that pros do and that is probably because those teams have players tale Ted enough to be pros in the very near future

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#36 Post by MajorMitchell » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:57 am

I think that the Surfing caper is changing to give equal prize money to Women & Men at contests series for world champions. I like the concept of distributing the total prize money at major events amongst all competing players/contestants & that happens in sports imperfectly. There's a wide variety of professional sports, from.snooker & darts to motorbike racing / Formula one
Professional sports that have individual competitors (with small team variants eg tennis & golf doubles) have by nature different remuneration methods than competitive sports with powerful clubs in "big team" sports, eg English Premier League football, formula one car racing, NFL & baseball & basketball in USA.
Professional sports is never static, it's always changing, evolving & I like it when sports associations/organisations, or groups of elite players "use their collective powers for good"

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Re: Female Athlete Pay

#37 Post by Octavious » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:39 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:57 am
use their collective powers for good
Whether or not professional sport can be considered "good" in the first place is another debate entirely. Worth sharing a John Finnemore sketch that illustrates the point nicely :).



Patsy: “Hello and welcome to the interview sketch. My name is Patsy Straightwoman and I am joined today by Benji Arnborough. The athlete who set our screens alight this summer when he won two gold medals in that big international sports competition. The one which is like the Olympics but isn’t the Olympics but happened at the same time as the Olympics and also let’s say in this universe the Olympics don’t exist. Benji! Welcome.”

Ben: “Thank you.”

Patsy: “So how are you adjusting to being the nation’s hero?”

Ben: “Yeah eh people keep calling me that, I really don’t know why...”

Patsy: “Well you are the world’s fastest sprint tricyclist.”

Ben: “Yeah, I know, and I’m made up about it, I just don’t get why anyone else is pleased.”

Patsy: “Well, for a start, your achievements on the track would’ve inspired a whole generation of young people to take up the sport.”

Ben: “Oh god I hope not.”

Patsy: “But why not?”

Ben: “Well I’m not finished yet. If I’m beaten in four years time by some spotty kid who only took it up because of me I’d be really pissed off!”

Patsy: “Haha”

Ben: “Why are you laughing?”

Patsy: “Right but seriously you must realize your story is inspirational.”

Ben: “Yeah but seriously why?”

Patsy: “Well because it shows that with determination and hard work anyone can be a world champion.”

Ben: “What?! No! No that’s not what my story shows at all! Wow you really haven’t understood my story! No my story shows that with determination and hard work I can become world champion. I mean, that’s it, that’s what I spend my whole life proving.”

Patsy: “But the message applies to anyone-”

Ben: “No! No the message literally only applies to me. That is, I mean that is the whole point of making it a race! Do you think the people I beat didn’t work hard? They, they really did! I saw them. And their story shows that with determination and hard work you can come second. Or eight. Or not qualify. Or not even be selected. And there are loads and loads of people with that story and only me with mine, mine is a statistical anomaly, you should discount it.”

Patsy: “Okay, fine, but even if not everyone can medal-”

Ben: “Get a medal, yeah.”

Patsy: “Sorry?”

Ben: “You missed out the words “get a” for some reason. Carry on.”

Patsy: “Even if they don’t... get a medal...”

Ben: “Thank you.”

Patsy: “It’s a good thing to inspire children to take up the sport, surely?”

Ben: “What, encourage them to dedicate their WHOLE lives to becoming the fastest and then... they don’t get to be the fastest? That sounds miserable. Glad it didn’t happen to me.”

Patsy: “But it promotes a healthier life style?”

Ben: “No hah no no. Jogging round the park, keeps you healthy. Training the way I train basically knackers your body for the rest of your life. And that’s just physically, mentally, I didn’t go to my sister’s wedding. Cause I was training. Not racing, training.”

Patsy: “Well there you are then! It involves huge dedication and sacrifice.”

Ben: “Oh yeah, yeah, huge, huge sacrifices! I’ve sacrificed more or less everything in my life to it since I was eight! But you know the thing is all those sacrifices I made, the cause I was making them for was the cause of me being able to go faster. Nothing else. I’m not saying that makes me a bad person. But I just don’t think that makes me a good person.”

Patsy: “What does it make you?”

Ben: “A fast person.”

Patsy: “Right. Alright then, what is your message to young people?”

Ben: “Why would I have a message for young people? I haven’t been thinking about young people. I haven’t been thinking about anything for fifteen years except how I can go faster.”

Patsy: “None the less, people will look to you for a message.”

Ben: “Ok, then, my message to young people, and old people, and people in between is... I am the fastest tricyclist in the world.”

Patsy: “And you could be too!”

Ben: “No.”

Patsy: “Benji Arnborough, thank you.”

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