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RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:33 pm

I also wished more people would acknowledge that in a pandemic, there are no good choices. Whatever strategy you choose, people will suffer and people will die. You can minimize, but you can't avoid. The question is who and when. The current lockdown approach has been effective in shielding the middle and upper classes. It is the poor, and in particular the children of poor families, who've had to absorb all the risk. School closures is the most egregious example. The US alone has about 13 million poor children. For most of them, online education means no education, due to lack of parental support. And one year shorter education is associated with about 1.7 years shorter life expectancy. Yes, yes, very rough estimates, not all children are school age, etc. But what is clear is that children from poor families will suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives. They've been thrown under the bus.

You are right. There were no good choices...and I don't think there is one right strategy for everyone. I wish that it had not become so politically toxic.

However, I think your understanding of how COVID affected the poor in the US is wrong...and your narrative is completely ass-backward. The poor have been the hardest hit by COVID by far. The poor have the worst pre-existing conditions which leave them most at risk. Many of the poor, especially in the cities, live in multi-generational households...if a kid brings home COVID they are at really at risk of killing grandma.

I know this from our personal experience. My wife works in the Bronx in a neighbourhood which I realize had not only has one of the highest death rates in the country but of the entire planet. Before the shutdown occurred, these families were already pulling their kids out of school. Even though all kids can now go physically to the classroom (at least part-time), most are choosing not to. By latest count I think my wife told me there were 20 kids out of potentially several hundred physically in the building.

Given how bad it is has been, many people in these poor neighbourhoods are still very afraid of the virus. They aren't willing to send their kids back to school. They aren't complaining about the schools being closed. The ones complaining the most about school closings are the white middle and upper classes which didn't have as bad an experience with COVID. You can decree all you want that schools should be open and "tut-tut" about it allegedly hurting the poor the most..but that is no good if the response has been so messed up that the poor people have no confidence in their safety if they do send their kids back to the physical classrooms.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/apparen ... 00837.html
The truth about Trump getting COVID-19. He is or is working for our alien overlords doing Satan's work to take over the world.

Flash, I wrote a post about children from poor families being the big losers from school closures. And they are. Whether parents of poor families are afraid of sending the kids back to school or not doesn't change that. But you're perfectly right in that the poor has been hit the hardest. And the US response so far has been abysmal.

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:42 am

Flash, I wrote a post about children from poor families being the big losers from school closures. And they are. Whether parents of poor families are afraid of sending the kids back to school or not doesn't change that. But you're perfectly right in that the poor has been hit the hardest. And the US response so far has been abysmal.

You wrote a post on how you think it is in the US. I live here, you don't. And I have personal experience because my wife works in the NYC school system which likely has one of the largest percentage of poor kids in the nation. I am telling you you don't know what you are talking about.

How can school closures be hurting the poor the most if they aren't going to turn up anyway because the response has been so bad? You don't solve the problem by just saying schools should be open whatever the cost. To really solve the schooling problem for poor kids you need to solve COVID.

I actually live in Chicago now.

But this isn't only in the US. School closures are happening all over. I only used the US numbers to put things in perspective. You have what, 230 000 dead in the US now? It is awful. But a generation of poor children missing out on their education, that's 13 million children suffering consequences for the rest of their lives. Their loss in life expectancy outweights the covid deaths by what, 100:1? That's a much worse disaster than covid.

I have no clue what you mean by 'solving covid'. It is plausible that this will go on for another year or two no matter what.

I do agree that the US government has failed miserably when it comes to information and when it comes to support for the poor. That is a big problem, which _also_ needs to be solved But children are not at risk, and there does not seem to be any cost for society associated with opening schools.

In fairness, the pre-covid American system hurts the poor the most too, so at least the pandemic responce is consistent.

The US being able to respond to Covid to help the worst hit would require them not to be the US. Like if individual states took charge of a bigger chunk of their budgets, NYC could target more at their education system, social housing and spending to end poverty. Allowing the more progressive areas on the east and west coasts break free of the Union... But that seems like a pipe dream to me.

NYexit anyone?

orathaic wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:36 pm

NYexit anyone?

Oof. Don't even joke about the train wreck that would be...