Confusing idealogies

[brainbomb]

The Republican Party of the United States has long held the position that Democrats were communists; fascists and corrupt. Specifically focusing on the argument that big government, big taxes and wealth redistribution make democrats Russian Thugs.

Now as Trump has become ever popular their love for Vladimir Putin has increased. I was at a social gathering the other day where a very conservative individual was complimenting Putin for having the guts to murder his political rivals, was saying America needs to be more like russia and torture terror suspects by chopping off their limbs and appendages. overall saying Putin knows how to get things done.

How did we get here? Russia is far from being a democracy but I thought the Republican party hated dictators, hated corrupt socialist countries and dispised big goverment. Correct me if im wrong but isnt Russia a huge government? Which is very corrupt and still mostly just its same old communist identity?

Why are Trump Republicans self identifying now as pro big government - moderate communist dictators now? Am I overreaching making this assertion?

[brainbomb]

They used to have this whole bit where they mocked Hilary Clinton for claiming Trump was in bed with Putin; only now it seems like they not only believe it - they unashamedly love Putin for how he has complete totalitarian - anti gay government that executes dissenters.

Still not sure how many of the jan 6 rioters would even be alive if it happened on Putins soil, and it was a rival candidates followers. Amusing to think about only insofar as pointing out the radical absurdity it would take to start thinking Puting is a solid moral guy.

like that even raises a better question; how on earth are Elderly and Evangelical voters embracing Putin now as a solid vision of what they want for America?? Lol

[CaptainFritz28]

I was at a social gathering the other day where a very conservative individual was complimenting Putin for having the guts to murder his political rivals, was saying America needs to be more like russia and torture terror suspects by chopping off their limbs and appendages. overall saying Putin knows how to get things done.

This fellow is just an idiot. I've also spoken with a Democrat who complimented Sadam Hussein for his work and political methods.

There are idiots on both sides, don't let them give you an idea of what the party in general believes.

[CaptainFritz28]

I'd be curious what other examples of pro-Putinism you refer to, because I'm sure you don't just mean this one person. I certainly don't like Putin, but consider myself more conservative politically, and generally if anyone at all compliments a dictator for doing dictatorial things I make a mental note that they've gone mad, no matter what political affiliation they take.

[Octavious]

The only openly pro-Putin politician I know in the UK is George Galloway, who is the MP for Rochdale and leader of the Workers Party of Britain (old school Socialists).

In terms of the general public there is pretty universal dislike. A few will look enviously at his ability to do stuff, but that's always the case. No different from looking jealously at China's ability to build a massive new motorway without worrying about the endless consultation you get over environmental issues, historical preservation, preserving communities, and all the other stuff that makes Western projects take forever and cost a fortune

[Jamiet99uk]

You appear to be confused, Brainbomb. Russia today is not communist or socialist at all. The USSR ceased to exist in 1991. Putin's Government is quite conservative and has much in common with US Republicanism, in fact.

[Wattsthematter]

I was at a social gathering the other day where a very conservative individual was complimenting Putin for having the guts to murder his political rivals, was saying America needs to be more like russia and torture terror suspects by chopping off their limbs and appendages. overall saying Putin knows how to get things done.

This fellow is just an idiot. I've also spoken with a Democrat who complimented Sadam Hussein for his work and political methods.

There are idiots on both sides, don't let them give you an idea of what the party in general believes.

As someone familiar with rural Appalachia... there sure are a lot of idiots, enough for me to think BB has a point here

[brainbomb]

I'd be curious what other examples of pro-Putinism you refer to, because I'm sure you don't just mean this one person. I certainly don't like Putin, but consider myself more conservative politically, and generally if anyone at all compliments a dictator for doing dictatorial things I make a mental note that they've gone mad, no matter what political affiliation they take.

It seems to me that Republicans like the idea of a leader with absolute control over the justice system, the economy, military, and an end to any term limits

[Octavious]

I'd be curious what other examples of pro-Putinism you refer to, because I'm sure you don't just mean this one person. I certainly don't like Putin, but consider myself more conservative politically, and generally if anyone at all compliments a dictator for doing dictatorial things I make a mental note that they've gone mad, no matter what political affiliation they take.

It seems to me that Republicans like the idea of a leader with absolute control over the justice system, the economy, military, and an end to any term limits

Really? I don't recall ever speaking to any Republican who thought those things. Usually they just bang on about the constitution until you lose the will to live. Even the nutters typically just limit themselves to some nonsense about the US being a Republic and not a Democracy, as if that's supposed to make any sense

[brainbomb]

Lets back up a second and just say that thinking torture of terror suspects is and has been totally acceptable to Republicans since the Bush Era. That much is true and we know this took place in Guantanamo during the war on terror. And the notion that America has gone soft and that Russia has the right idea on using torture and mutilation is just how you exude toughness.

[CaptainFritz28]

I'd be curious what other examples of pro-Putinism you refer to, because I'm sure you don't just mean this one person. I certainly don't like Putin, but consider myself more conservative politically, and generally if anyone at all compliments a dictator for doing dictatorial things I make a mental note that they've gone mad, no matter what political affiliation they take.

It seems to me that Republicans like the idea of a leader with absolute control over the justice system, the economy, military, and an end to any term limits

Really? I could say the same for the opposite side, if I watched enough right-wing news, and I imagine a good chunk of your views here are from left-wing news.

I would like to remind you that the government wants us divided. A divided people are easier to control. In reality, we think a lot more alike than the media or government makes it out to be.

[CaptainFritz28]

Lets back up a second and just say that thinking torture of terror suspects is and has been totally acceptable to Republicans since the Bush Era. That much is true and we know this took place in Guantanamo during the war on terror. And the notion that America has gone soft and that Russia has the right idea on using torture and mutilation is just how you exude toughness.

Guantanamo bay is not something a lot of people know about. It has become more mainstream, but for a while it was covered up. And despite the Democrats promises to close it down, they've made no attempt to do so despite having 11 years of presidents in office.

But again, where do you see this in actuality? I've only ever heard that Republicans agree with Putin from... Democrat news sources.

Although I would agree with you on a point very similar to this: it seems that more Republicans tend to be for the use of the military for a wide variety of things which... really should have a declaration of war first. This isn't isolated to Republicans, I've seen it on both sides, but Republican politicians, at least, tend to be a bit too trigger happy when it comes to using our military. I wouldn't want to see a president MTG.

[CaptainFritz28]

I was at a social gathering the other day where a very conservative individual was complimenting Putin for having the guts to murder his political rivals, was saying America needs to be more like russia and torture terror suspects by chopping off their limbs and appendages. overall saying Putin knows how to get things done.

This fellow is just an idiot. I've also spoken with a Democrat who complimented Sadam Hussein for his work and political methods.

There are idiots on both sides, don't let them give you an idea of what the party in general believes.

As someone familiar with rural Appalachia... there sure are a lot of idiots, enough for me to think BB has a point here

Sure, and as someone familiar with the urban centers of Texas, I've seen a lot of idiots on the other side, hence my statement.

If BB's point is to say we're all screwed and there's going to be a civil war because there are so many irrational sheep on both sides, then sure, that point could be made. But I don't think we're TOO far gone... not yet at least.

[brainbomb]

Republicans support ending the war in Ukraine by saying they would stop funding Ukraines role, that Nato is on its own and america would not get involved if Russia attacked Nato members, and the latest I have heard is they support Ukraine giving up large tracts of land and conceding defeat. Ive heard Republicans saying Navalny got what he deserved for taking too many risks and they dont sympathize with him.
ive heard the dont say gay law was devised by Putin, in Russia and is championed by the entire Republican party as a centerpeice of their worldview.

[CaptainFritz28]

You appear to be confused, Brainbomb. Russia today is not communist or socialist at all. The USSR ceased to exist in 1991. Putin's Government is quite conservative and has much in common with US Republicanism, in fact.

I was under the impression that Russia is still run by Oligarchs or an Authoritatian Dictatorship?

[brainbomb]

Countless examples of stances and policies and youll keep repeating “well goarsh theres wackos on both sides hurhuehurhry”

[CaptainFritz28]

Republicans support ending the war in Ukraine by saying they would stop funding Ukraines role, that Nato is on its own and america would not get involved if Russia attacked Nato members, and the latest I have heard is they support Ukraine giving up large tracts of land and conceding defeat. Ive heard Republicans saying Navalny got what he deserved for taking too many risks and they dont sympathize with him.
ive heard the dont say gay law was devised by Putin, in Russia and is championed by the entire Republican party as a centerpeice of their worldview.

If you're referring to what people say on the internet... yeah. Some people do say those things. Perhaps it is enough to be worried, maybe you're right. I suppose I would compare that to Hillary Clinton talking about sending Republicans to reeducation camps, and all the people that have supported such things or pushed for it on the internet. I could also liken it to people calling for Texas' secession.

There are people that want all those things, yes. But I don't think that any of those examples are indicative of the party on the whole. I don't imagine you want to send Republicans to reeducation camps, following in the footsteps of Hitler and Stalin, just as I, a Texan, don't want to secede. It's indicative, rather, of the extreme division in America. Some Republicans think, "well, if the Democrats call me a racist Nazi, I might as well be one," and the same sort of thing on the other side. Are these real people? Yes. Would the vast majority of the party agree with them? I don't think so.

[CaptainFritz28]

Countless examples of stances and policies and youll keep repeating “well goarsh theres wackos on both sides hurhuehurhry”

I'm sure mocking each other will really help us see the other side for what it really is, hmm? If your interests are merely to mock, then good day, as you merely wish to waste my time and don't really want to get to the truth of the matter. Otherwise, let's have a civil discussion.

Yes, I'm saying that the stances and policies you bring up are the stances and policies of the wackos. If I said that the Democrat party can be characterized as murderers because of the law in California that would have allowed the killing of babies up to thirty days after birth, you would say that a minority holds this view and it is not indicative of the party's position. If I said that all Denocrats want reeducation camps and to use the justice system to take out all their political opponents because some of the higher ups call for that, you would say that again, these are the wackos who are not a good picture of the majority.

Example after example, policy after policy, I could go through a list of things that you would think are a great mischaracterization of your party, because they are the stances and policies put forward by the nutcases within it.

What I'm saying is that the stances and policies you refer to are the same thing. Yes, there are extremists on the right, and I (along with what I believe to be a majority of Republicans) think they're fools.

[brainbomb]

Whether we get along is very much irrelevant if the mass majority has these ideas.

I should explain that I am a lifelong democrat but I dont support Abortion; and I am mostly disappointed in where were at as a country politically. I dont think Biden is actually making most of the decisions and as such hes probably not a candidate I plan to vote for. I prefer my vote being used for Cornel West at this point. Hearing people talk about Russia like they are an example of what America should be like is disturbing. And I do wonder if Trump supporters en masse have these opinions now also

[CaptainFritz28]

Whether we get along is very much irrelevant if the mass majority has these ideas.

I should explain that I am a lifelong democrat but I dont support Abortion; and I am mostly disappointed in where were at as a country politically. I dont think Biden is actually making most of the decisions and as such hes probably not a candidate I plan to vote for. I prefer my vote being used for Cornel West at this point. Hearing people talk about Russia like they are an example of what America should be like is disturbing. And I do wonder if Trump supporters en masse have these opinions now also

You're a great example of my point. The parties are much more nuanced than the media makes them out to be. I've heard conservative talk show hosts call all Democrats fascists for opinions that only a minority holds. I've seen liberal politicians label all Republican fascists for opinions that a select few politicians push for.

If your concern is caused by internet commenters and the news you watch, don't worry too much about it. On the news and on the internet, the most extreme opinions get the most clicks, and thus rise to the top of everyone's attention. That doesn't mean that the majority agrees with it.

I see reason to believe that a small chunk of Republicans do think that Putin's Russia is doing better than Biden here in the U.S., but I don't see reason to believe that that is a majority or even worth giving much thought to. Maybe the next few years will prove me wrong, who knows, but at this point, I don't think its an opinion held by many more than the wackiest of Republicans.