Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

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orathaic
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#181 Post by orathaic » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:13 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:32 am
orathaic wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:42 am
There are legitimate reasons why some people may get upset with some of these casting choices.
What might qualify as a legitimate reason exactly? Black actors have every right to have their talent demonstrated (same with other crew members, writers, directors etc.) What legitimate reason is there to deny this fact, without being racist?
It’s using an actor’s race as a cheap marketing gimmick. Do you think Disney made this casting choice without any thought as to this person’s skin colour? If yes you’re very naive, if not it’s using race to sell movie tickets.

Don’t be so sure that you have the moral high ground; throwing around accusations of racism freely while supporting Disney Corporation in adding a token black actor to increase the demographic appeal and awareness of their crappy remake.. :P


Anyone who sees this because Disney cast a black actor and think it’s progressive is a complete tool in my humble opinion (I’m not saying anyone here fits that category, even though they’re defending it). The same kind of person who in the 1940’s would’ve watched Disney’s Songs of the South and considered it partaking in black culture.
The fact that some Disney executives may be exactly this cynical doesn't detract from the effects.

Which includes paying a black actress for the role, inspiring a huge number of children in the audience who haven't seen themselves represented, demonstrating it is possible to make successful movie while recasting a white animated character with a person of colour.

And lastly, i am not defending Disney, their decision should be precisely what they think will make them the most money. They are not in the business of making art for the cultural benefit of others, apart from as a side effect of capitalism. But i can see that most criticism of their decision is based solely on racism without defending Disney's decision. I would happily ignore them/remain entirely neutral on this decision.

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#182 Post by Octavious » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:25 pm

orathaic wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:09 pm
Religions don't deserve any more special protections than, for example a government or charitable organisation.
Whilst I may agree with such a statement, legally it seems detached from reality.

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.


Religious belief is very much a protected characteristic, on a par with sex, race and disability. I agree with you that the EU charter of Fundamental Rights is flawed, but it is what it is
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#183 Post by worcej » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:40 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:58 pm
Update:

Twerking She-Hulk is... just...

wtf
Yeah… it’s bad writing
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orathaic
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#184 Post by orathaic » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:51 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:25 pm
orathaic wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:09 pm
Religions don't deserve any more special protections than, for example a government or charitable organisation.
Whilst I may agree with such a statement, legally it seems detached from reality.

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.


Religious belief is very much a protected characteristic, on a par with sex, race and disability. I agree with you that the EU charter of Fundamental Rights is flawed, but it is what it is
I think there is a difference between, for example, criticising embezzolment and psychological manipulation performed by the Church of Scientology, and discriminating against individuals who happen to hold erroneous beliefs.

And i suspect it is one which is not clearly spelled out in law, but i think we agree more on this than not.

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#185 Post by kestasjk » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:22 am

Octavious wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:43 pm
kestasjk wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:31 am
Whether it’s the truth or not I think it’s worth discussing, and I’d be pretty disgusted to see someone banned because you’re .. what’s the wordIng.. being bigoted against a certain group (in this case Scientologists).. but Scientologists aren’t a sympathetic group so I’m sure you’re safe.
Quite possibly true, although having protection in place only for sympathetic groups is in itself troubling. If we were to turn the clocks back 100 years there was little public sympathy for Jews, which enabled various governments of the time to effectively scapegoat them. And it is entirely possible that a similar fall from public sympathy could happen again in the future.
Right that’s my point; I’m not defending it I’m saying that’s the sad reality right now.
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#186 Post by kestasjk » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:57 am

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:50 pm
Damn, I need to stop revealing so much info about myself on this forum purely to win stupid internet debates.

I've given the internet a dozen weakness to hit me now.
Your dad liking the last Airbender movie? :| I’ll have restraint and not use that against you
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#187 Post by MajorMitchell » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:31 pm

What about Artistic freedom?
The freedom of an artist to have and make their artistic choices unfettered by the moral and social norms?
Artists rarely force an audience to look.at or try to force the audience to try to understand their art.
Artist are artists to fulfill their needs, not the needs of the audience?
Art can be a tool to reassure the audience in their belief systems, or a tool to challenge those belief systems.
Do not assume that artists exist to reinforce the belief systems of all audiences, it is illogical, and beware of attempting to force artists to serve the purposes of the state or the majority, their orthodox value and belief systems

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#188 Post by worcej » Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:23 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:31 pm
What about Artistic freedom?
The freedom of an artist to have and make their artistic choices unfettered by the moral and social norms?
Artists rarely force an audience to look.at or try to force the audience to try to understand their art.
Artist are artists to fulfill their needs, not the needs of the audience?
Art can be a tool to reassure the audience in their belief systems, or a tool to challenge those belief systems.
Do not assume that artists exist to reinforce the belief systems of all audiences, it is illogical, and beware of attempting to force artists to serve the purposes of the state or the majority, their orthodox value and belief systems
I’d consider your viewpoint more if it wasn’t MCU content, which is all about making money not artistic freedoms

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#189 Post by orathaic » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:29 am

Yeah, I'm not sure where artistic freedom comes i to this. Artists are free to starve if they create things which nobody is interested in (except in Ireland where they are trialing a basic Income for Artists). And they are free to sign up to work for faceless multinational corporations and make as much money as their craft will allow.

Lots of freedom for Artists, but they are constrained by their culture. I saw one sculptor this year made a Púca (traditional Irish goblin creature) and then the local Council refused to put it up (because it was rather ugly) https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/0 ... nnistymon/

Artists not getting paid for 'ugly' works just seems the norm.
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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#190 Post by MajorMitchell » Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:22 am

Whatever Marvel Comical Universe is up to is of little interest to me, they've made their choices, and audiences will, or will not choose to pay to see it's garish horrors. My point is that I allow the MCU producers make their choices and they reap the consequences, amd i expect similar freedom to make my choices.
There are boundaries set by service providers, nation states, the constant tension between protecting our communities balanced with granting freedoms of expressions.
In the private sector, it's the investors who should determine how they want to risk and perhaps lose their money. Not some committeee of self appointed stickybeaks on a social.network whining and feeling virtuous.

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#191 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:36 am

It is absolutely nuts how anyone non-white playing the villain role is being seen an racist at the moment. There was recently outrage over the Netflix series Wednesday because two of the mean kids were black...and that must have been driven by racism:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/30/tim-burto ... s-bullies/

It has got so bad that non-white actors are being shut out of villain parts because Hollywood has got scared of being called racist:

https://news.yahoo.com/want-play-more-b ... 46926.html

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Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

#192 Post by Doom427 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:30 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:36 am
It is absolutely nuts how anyone non-white playing the villain role is being seen an racist at the moment. There was recently outrage over the Netflix series Wednesday because two of the mean kids were black...and that must have been driven by racism:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/30/tim-burto ... s-bullies/

It has got so bad that non-white actors are being shut out of villain parts because Hollywood has got scared of being called racist:

https://news.yahoo.com/want-play-more-b ... 46926.html
The CEO of hollywood LLC sees this while playing diplomacy and decides to announce a big hiring of Villains of Color. Just to make sure he can reach Flash2015, he requires everyone who works on any film to say publicly that the actor they brought on was picked because of their race, that way Flash can go to the movies confident that Hollywood is respecting actors of color and their struggle.

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