Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

Any political discussion should go here. This subforum will be moderated differently than other forums.
Forum rules
1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Tolstoy
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 pm
Location: FEMA Region 4
Karma: 28

Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#1 Post by Tolstoy » Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:31 am

American/EU/Western/NATO-aligned media is claiming that Russia destroyed their own pipeline earlier this week, at the same time a similar Baltic natural gas pipeline is coming online in Poland. Does anyone really believe that Russia destroyed their own pipeline, when simply flipping the switch to OFF was having the same geopolitical effect?

Fluminator
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 2897

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#2 Post by Fluminator » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:37 am

Biden literally claims they'd take out the pipeline
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KoomA4wSeUE

American senators claim it to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUIlHM9WSo

I'm a little confused why the media is reporting Russia did it?

Fluminator
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 2897

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#3 Post by Fluminator » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:51 am

The main reason the media gave is Putin bombed his own pipeline as intimidation to send a message saying he could destroy other pipelines if he wants.

I guess nothing is impossible, but it would have been more intimidating if he bombed a pipeline he wasn't in complete control of. And the fact Putin is denying doing it and calling it stupid to think so, makes me think the intimidation reason falls apart. (Wouldn't he be owning it if that was his goal?)

This is honestly as bad as the time the media claimed Assad was randomly gassing his own civilians in Syria to send a message about "how evil he is".

Octavious
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2246
Contact:

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#4 Post by Octavious » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:59 am

Well, that rules out the Yanks. If they wanted to do it and didn't care who knows they would have just done it and said it was them, and if they wanted to do it secretly they wouldn't have had their President mention the possibility before hand.

It could be Russia. They have been playing with the European supply all year, and this action is very much in line with with what's happened so far. European industry is dependent on cheap energy, so this could be a warning that cheap energy can be turned off permanently. I imagine that the current damage is fixable, but it is also clear that more extensive and irreversible damage is quite easy to achieve. Europe is currently in the painful position of having to heavily subsidise energy prices to keep its industry competitive, which is racking up eye watering debt. They can keep it up short term, but if its long-term either European industry collapses or their economies shake themselves apart trying to keep it going. A similar thing happened prior to the Great Depression.

Alternatively it's another nation that believes it is benefitting from the war. An energy producer doing well out of high prices, or someone able to buy energy more cheaply than the West and is enjoying a relative economic advantage. Or some rogue element of a military acting under their own initiative.

Or SPECTRE, of course. We've seen this plot in James Bond before
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

orathaic
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 323

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#5 Post by orathaic » Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:43 pm

The explanation i have seen for why Russia would want to bomb the pipeline (which i believe is jointly theirs and germany's infrastructure) is so their contracts would be voided.

Can't be blamed for failure to deliver if an 'act of god' prevented it from happening. Apparently they reduced and cut off supply in August and then September but blamed it on various temporary issues beyond their control.

Aside, environmentally this is a disaster, how much natural gas was in the pipes even while off? Possibly the highest peak of methane in history.

flash2015
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 3127
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 1122

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#6 Post by flash2015 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:08 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:37 am
Biden literally claims they'd take out the pipeline
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KoomA4wSeUE

American senators claim it to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUIlHM9WSo

I'm a little confused why the media is reporting Russia did it?
If you pay close attention you will find that they are talking about NordStream 2 not NordStream. NordStream 2, if I remember correctly, would have made the pipelines through Ukraine obsolete. NordStream 2 was never operational.

Fluminator
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 2897

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#7 Post by Fluminator » Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:10 pm

Oh wow, that's embarrassing. Thanks for letting me know.
I fully redact my first post lol.
1

Octavious
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2246
Contact:

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#8 Post by Octavious » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:20 pm

orathaic wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:43 pm
Aside, environmentally this is a disaster, how much natural gas was in the pipes even while off? Possibly the highest peak of methane in history.
Possibly the largest single event, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it's particularly significant. The dirty secret of the gas industry is that the infrastructure is far more leaky than you'd imagine. The emissions figures are based on the whole lot being combusted, which is a long way from the truth. A load of gas is lost during extraction, and a load more is lost in transit, and the end result is that natural gas isn't all that much cleaner than coal.
2
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

French_boi
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:14 pm
Karma: 9

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#9 Post by French_boi » Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:05 am

The way I see it, I don't think the US would risk endangering its diplomatic alliances with countries like Germany that needed Nordstream. My best guess (and just a guess) is that it could be a warning from Russia that they have the capacity and willingness to attack the infrastructure of European countries that oppose it.

Octavious
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2246
Contact:

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#10 Post by Octavious » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:24 am

Indeed so. The timing of the Nordstream incident coinciding with the opening of the Baltic Pipe is unlikely to be a coincidence.
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

Fluminator
Posts: 4192
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:50 pm
Karma: 2897

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#11 Post by Fluminator » Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 am

Octavious wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:20 pm
orathaic wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:43 pm
Aside, environmentally this is a disaster, how much natural gas was in the pipes even while off? Possibly the highest peak of methane in history.
Possibly the largest single event, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it's particularly significant. The dirty secret of the gas industry is that the infrastructure is far more leaky than you'd imagine. The emissions figures are based on the whole lot being combusted, which is a long way from the truth. A load of gas is lost during extraction, and a load more is lost in transit, and the end result is that natural gas isn't all that much cleaner than coal.
My full time job is emission regulation in the upstream oil and gas industry and I'm going to have to ask for a source? I'm not saying you're wrong but this is a very big claim so I need a bit more backing this up.

Every component in a pipeline vents a little, but the numbers are very well documented and recorded (at least in Canada where I work) and required to be re-analyzed every year.
By far the worst losses are in the older equipment (which is why so many companies want to build new pipelines, but the environmentalists stop that so the gas is forced to go through the older leakier pipelines still) but it's no where near the emissions of coal still lol.

Octavious
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2246
Contact:

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#12 Post by Octavious » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:15 am

This was the South West Energy & Environment Group, around 15 years ago. They put in a lot of work into carbon equivalent footprints of various methods of energy production, taking a holistic view including embedded carbon, losses in transport, the actual burning of the stuff etc etc. Hydroelectric dams were particularly grim, with a huge embedded carbon cost and high methane emissions from associated rotting vegetation. But for natural gas there was considerable leakage at extraction, pipeline leakage, and domestic and industrial leakage at or near the point of use. If Canada documents it well that is commendable, but that's not repeated across the globe.
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

orathaic
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:20 pm
Karma: 323

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#13 Post by orathaic » Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:27 am

Octavious wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:20 pm
orathaic wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:43 pm
Aside, environmentally this is a disaster, how much natural gas was in the pipes even while off? Possibly the highest peak of methane in history.
Possibly the largest single event, but in the grand scheme of things I doubt it's particularly significant. The dirty secret of the gas industry is that the infrastructure is far more leaky than you'd imagine. The emissions figures are based on the whole lot being combusted, which is a long way from the truth. A load of gas is lost during extraction, and a load more is lost in transit, and the end result is that natural gas isn't all that much cleaner than coal.
Depends on what you mean by clean. Coal generates a lot of particulate matter which causes respiratory issues. The number of years of life lost as a result are difficult to estimate, but likely greater than all the life lost from every nuclear disaster (even when you factor in the per kWh of energy produced).

But what is harder to measure is the cumulative effect of smokey coal coating surfaces (changing how much energy is absorbed by the earth... Coating ice would make it melt much faster...).

Octavious
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 2246
Contact:

Re: Who bombed the Nordstream Pipeline?

#14 Post by Octavious » Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:09 am

And elements like acid rain, of course, which is the nostalgic environmental issue of my school days along with the ozone layer. Happy times...
1
I eat cookies to improve my snacking experience

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests