Medical Experts

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Fluminator
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Medical Experts

#1 Post by Fluminator » Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:55 pm

Is there a group of experts who've ever been more wrong about practically everything, yet still gaslighting us to think they did a good job?

Perhaps in hindsight we shouldn't have trusted big pharma no questions asked and all the doctors paid by them.

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Re: Medical Experts

#2 Post by Fluminator » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm

Lockdowns, Vaccines, Masks, Severity of Covid, Ivermectin, Origin of Covid, and mandates are just some of the topics that in hindsight the medical experts were completely wrong on. Yet not even one apology by people like Fauci.

The most frustrating part is that there were doctors and experts who were correct, but were silenced or shut down or banned by the media. It's true that sometimes experts can get things wrong, but now they're pretending that no one could have predicted this, even though they were literally silencing the people who were correct!

Gah

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Re: Medical Experts

#3 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm
Lockdowns, Vaccines, Masks, Severity of Covid, Ivermectin, Origin of Covid, and mandates are just some of the topics that in hindsight the medical experts were completely wrong on. Yet not even one apology by people like Fauci.

The most frustrating part is that there were doctors and experts who were correct, but were silenced or shut down or banned by the media. It's true that sometimes experts can get things wrong, but now they're pretending that no one could have predicted this, even though they were literally silencing the people who were correct!

Gah
What is your source for claiming that "medical experts" were "completely wrong" about vaccines?
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Re: Medical Experts

#4 Post by Octavious » Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:47 pm

I tend not to demand apologies from people who act in good faith under difficult circumstances, regardless of how such actions play out in the final analysis.

We are also a long way from knowing what was the ideal set of choices, even with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. I would be extremely hesitant to flock to the banner of anyone claiming correctness at this stage.
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Re: Medical Experts

#5 Post by Randomizer » Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 pm

Then there are people who push fake and questionable medical cures because they have a financial stake in the companies producing them. People like Dr. Oz, President Trump, ....

These are worse because they should know better, but care about themselves more than others. I suppose Trump never read the warning label about bleach not being for internal use.

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Re: Medical Experts

#6 Post by Fluminator » Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:14 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:08 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm
What is your source for claiming that "medical experts" were "completely wrong" about vaccines?
How many different examples do you want?

A more recent one is they claimed the increase cardiovascular problems caused by the vaccine were a coincidence when studies now show there's a connection.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z

Another that hits close to home for me as this happened to someone in my family is they said it was completely safe for pregnant women to get vaxxed, when it's now been revealed there are a large increase of miscarriages to vaxxed people. What really hurts is the Pfizer was aware of this yet still pushed the vaccine on pregnant women because money is all they care about.
https://justthenews.com/government/fede ... y-says-vax

I could keep going.

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Re: Medical Experts

#7 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:50 am

They were not wrong about the mRNA vaccines providing excellent protection against hospitalization and/or death from covid.
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Re: Medical Experts

#8 Post by Octavious » Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:42 am

Fluminator wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:14 pm
Another that hits close to home for me as this happened to someone in my family is they said it was completely safe for pregnant women to get vaxxed, when it's now been revealed there are a large increase of miscarriages to vaxxed people. What really hurts is the Pfizer was aware of this yet still pushed the vaccine on pregnant women because money is all they care about.
https://justthenews.com/government/fede ... y-says-vax
I know it is unlikely to provide any comfort, but the 44% miscarriages figure is not true. Naomi Wolf, the Dr of English Literature and political campaigner who came up with the figure, miscounted as each miscarriage was recorded under the heading of "adverse effects" and also under "serious adverse effects", and as such single events were counted by Naomi twice. There were also various other issues with her analysis, although none quite so dramatic. There was nothing in the Pfizer report to indicate that the drug is particularly dangerous for pregnancies.

It's also true to say that there's nothing in it that suggests it's safe either. Ultimately it is a powerful drug about which we have very little data. I would be inclined to avoid getting any vaccines during pregnancy, in much the same way that British medical experts don't advise getting travel vaccines when pregnant. The data just isn't strong enough to give you confidence.
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Re: Medical Experts

#9 Post by orathaic » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:24 pm

This just in, low levels of Seratonin in the brain do not in fact cause depression... So even though we know SSRIs do work, we do not know how they work (for some people)

Which is fascinating because it means we now know we don't know how depression works - which means we have an avenue of research to help understand it better, and therefore have a chance to help even those folks who SSRIs don't work for.

At least medical experts admit when they got it wrong, even if they have made entire careers teaching the wrong thing.

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Re: Medical Experts

#10 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 pm

What was the point of this thread in the first place?

@Fluminator, what do you want? What motivated this sweeping general attack on medical science? What do you propose?

Get rid of doctors and medical experts and trust in your local witch-doctor?

Modern medicine has achieved many wonderful things, several of them I have directly, personally benefited from, and I am grateful for that.

If you specifically suspect "big pharma" and would prefer to place medical research fully within the control of the state, I would be interested in discussing that idea.

But your OP is just general shit-flinging and not very productive.
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Re: Medical Experts

#11 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:23 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:14 pm
A more recent one is they claimed the increase cardiovascular problems caused by the vaccine were a coincidence when studies now show there's a connection.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10928-z
This study is very interesting. It's based on data from Israel's national Emergency Medical Services database during 2019-2021. Nearly the entire Israeli population aged 16+ received 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine during this period.

But the study only concludes that there is a "correlation" between the 2nd vaccine dose and an increase in certain serious cardiac events in males aged 16-39. It stops short of concluding that the vaccine *caused* the increased incidence of these events. It says more studies are needed to test whether that is the case.
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Re: Medical Experts

#12 Post by Manwe Sulimo » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:27 pm

"Perhaps in hindsight we shouldn't have trusted big pharma"
Who is "we"? I honestly don't know how anyone capable of critical thinking could have bought the manure they have been peddling.

"So even though we know SSRIs do work"
Do we know they work? Or does the placebo effect work.

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Re: Medical Experts

#13 Post by Randomizer » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:57 pm

Manwe Sulimo wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:27 pm
"So even though we know SSRIs do work"
Do we know they work? Or does the placebo effect work.
Medicine doesn't know how depression works in the brain. It doesn't know how SSRIs work and if they really work. But sometimes one does help in some cases so let us try several at one. Percussive repairs where the brain gets smashed with drugs in hops that it resets to a better state.

Most of you grew up this century after the FDA stopped allowing drug companies to only need 3 clinical studies that showed some benefit over a placebo or existing drug. A company could hide all other studies that showed no benefit or even severe adverse reactions like deaths.

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Re: Medical Experts

#14 Post by Manwe Sulimo » Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:51 pm

“ Percussive repairs where the brain gets smashed with drugs in hops that it resets to a better state.“

That sounds like a reckless strategy. Not sure who would sign up for that.

“A company could hide all other studies that showed no benefit or even severe adverse reactions like deaths.”

Selection bias like that would make all findings meaningless. I’ll never lose a coin flip if I only count the flips that turn up heads.

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Re: Medical Experts

#15 Post by Fluminator » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:06 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 pm
What was the point of this thread in the first place?

@Fluminator, what do you want? What motivated this sweeping general attack on medical science? What do you propose?

Get rid of doctors and medical experts and trust in your local witch-doctor?

Modern medicine has achieved many wonderful things, several of them I have directly, personally benefited from, and I am grateful for that.

If you specifically suspect "big pharma" and would prefer to place medical research fully within the control of the state, I would be interested in discussing that idea.

But your OP is just general shit-flinging and not very productive.
I think the main thing is we should give back freedoms to the people. Doctors can stay but we shouldn't give the CEOs of corrupt drug companies so much power over society (when profit is all they care about). Forcing people to get jabbed with a very unpleasant medical device is a recipe for abuse, especially when by law they aren't allowed to be sued for bad side effects. (Even if in this case it was justified)
In Canada, the Indigenous population especially was against our white men forcing them to inject themselves with Western medicine.

We tried enforcing everyone line up to inject, we tried demonized anyone who wanted to wait. And it failed.
All it resulted in was a destroyed economy, caused untold psychological damage in our children and schools, drug abuse and suicide and so much else is up, many people lost their jobs. All for nothing but to satisfy the ego of the medical elite. At least the CDC admitted they failed recently, but we can't let it happen again, and that starts by giving freedom back to the people so when companies like Pfizer and Moderna want to enforce people take their drugs, it will have to be because they work and not because you'll be fired if you don't.

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Re: Medical Experts

#16 Post by flash2015 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:20 am

What nonsense are you talking about? "Big pharma" had absolutely zero power to "enforce people take their drugs". These decisions were made by governments based on what they believed was the right decision to protect the populace.

You may disagree with the decisions (and certainly these mandates stayed around way, way too long)...but "CEOs of corrupt drug companies" were not the cause.
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Re: Medical Experts

#17 Post by Randomizer » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:20 pm

https://www.yahoo.com/news/henry-ford-d ... 16478.html

Pushing a questionable cure with a poorly controlled and designed study. Note Trump and friends had a financial interest in the manufacture.

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Re: Medical Experts

#18 Post by Fluminator » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:35 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:20 am
What nonsense are you talking about? "Big pharma" had absolutely zero power to "enforce people take their drugs". These decisions were made by governments based on what they believed was the right decision to protect the populace.

You may disagree with the decisions (and certainly these mandates stayed around way, way too long)...but "CEOs of corrupt drug companies" were not the cause.
The governments ceded power to the medical experts in the government. Of which almost all of them were in the pockets of big pharma or the World Economic Forum, so in a sense they were the true powers.

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Re: Medical Experts

#19 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:39 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:35 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:20 am
What nonsense are you talking about? "Big pharma" had absolutely zero power to "enforce people take their drugs". These decisions were made by governments based on what they believed was the right decision to protect the populace.

You may disagree with the decisions (and certainly these mandates stayed around way, way too long)...but "CEOs of corrupt drug companies" were not the cause.
The governments ceded power to the medical experts in the government. Of which almost all of them were in the pockets of big pharma or the World Economic Forum, so in a sense they were the true powers.
America is governed by the super rich. This is not news.

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Re: Medical Experts

#20 Post by Manwe Sulimo » Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:41 pm

The world. Not just America.

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