seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

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AnimalsCS
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#81 Post by AnimalsCS » Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:41 pm

pyxxy wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:42 pm
Hmmm as I write all these out....yep, I'm converted to "build two armies but don't stab in the spring of 1908" argument. I'm salivating at the chance to attack Germany and get across the stalemate line while also taking out the other solo threat.
And now you can see why I was so afraid of exactly that!
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ColoBoy
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#82 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:10 pm

Thanks Pyxxy. I considered the move on Germany in the spring, but my notes say I stayed committed to the idea of getting to Iberia first...definitely the wrong choice. And yes, Germany read me like a book.
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Brinbino
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#83 Post by Brinbino » Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:08 am

Here is the Pastebin of Russia's thoughts through game 1. It's a bit slapshot, I was planning on writing something a bit more thought through before posting but I'm a bit manic at the moment.

https://pastebin.com/MU6Gb38D

Hopefully it explains some of the stupid moves I made...

AnimalsCS
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#84 Post by AnimalsCS » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:46 pm

Now that all four of these games are finished, are people interested in starting more games in the same style?
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Hithlum
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#85 Post by Hithlum » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:50 pm

AnimalsCS wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Now that all four of these games are finished, are people interested in starting more games in the same style?
Very much so.

President Eden
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#86 Post by President Eden » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:50 pm

EOG - Turkey, in Game 3 (http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=339888)

1901: Ran what I consider the standard Turkish opening in the current webDip metagame - a committed anti-Lepanto start that allows fleet moves to Aegean Sea and Eastern Mediterranean in S02. The Lepanto is so standard that Turkey has to warp its opening around disincentivizing the continuation from Italy. It's not the most powerful opening in the abstract, but it gets the job done in this metagame, and that's what counts.

BrotherBored (aka swordsman3003) discusses the nuances of the opening in detail here, if you want a more in-depth read:
https://brotherbored.com/youve-never-us ... t-opening/

It didn't quite go like I wanted, because I didn't anticipate Italy backing off the Lepanto in A01. If I had, then I would have continued to the Black Sea and Constantinople instead of Constantinople and Ankara - probably still build a second fleet, but it doesn't look so threatening to Italy.

1902: The situation was clearly Russia + Turkey vs Austria so I anticipated that Italy would back off the attack on France to come help. I guessed wrong and lost some tempo for it, but I don't think I was ever advancing on Austria from that situation anyway, so not much lost. If I hadn't moved to Eastern Mediterranean in A02 and Italy had, I think I would have lost on the spot.

Spring 1903: Worth highlighting on its own because two key things happen. One, Italy achieves a major breakthrough against France, correctly guessing France's attempted bounce in Spain and securing Marseilles with a great shot at Spain in the fall. It's clear Italy is headed for two builds and that I'm the easiest next target. Two, Russia surrenders all tempo gained from the successful incursion into Galicia in 1902 by ordering all support holds, allowing Austria to outflank in Bohemia. I am inevitably going to be encircled by Austria and ground out if things don't change.

So, in the fall, I launch the strongest attack against Russia that I can, in the hopes of winning over Austria and having a friend against Italy, or failing that, of scaring Italy into attacking Austria out of fear of an Austria + Turkey alliance. Worst case, I take a Russian center or two and can play like a miniature Russia + Turkey all on my own, and can make plays that don't result in me slowly being ground out.

1904: Austria has no interest in alliance and attacks me. Fair enough. I read the play and manage to get a build, but structurally I'm still in a bad spot. I decide not to build a fleet because Italy and I have only been skirmishing in Ionian Sea, and it's possible Italy won't make a major attack on me if I don't escalate what is a minor and insignificant conflict.

1905: Some more correct guesses with Romania (and humorously wrong guesses with that Mediterranean fleet...) and I get another build. However, it's clear that my position is indefensible. I might have liked my odds if Austria hadn't moved to Ukraine and out of Silesia that turn, since it seemed that Germany was starting to get annoyed with Austria's games (if you could call sniping Berlin a game). Austria was on five centers and needed all five units against me, so German pressure could have broken things wide open. But Austria wisely recognizes this and stops harassing Germany, and I am overextended. Italy builds another fleet, and this time I feel forced to reciprocate, because Italy has run out of places to expand besides me.

1906-07: Slow burn retreat to a more defensible position. Italy needs to see that I recognize the danger England + Germany pose, and that I won't cause problems for the Italian defense of the Mediterranean. Italy faces a disband and the loss of Iberia, so I feel confident that the Ionian fleet won't harass me, meaning that I can ensure Austria can't make progress against me. I fully plan to backstab Austria and possibly Italy at some point to force a 3-way draw with England + Germany (being the minor partner of the three, and the counterweight against a solo attempt from the stronger of the pair).

1908: I make a predictable attack on Austria and Austria plays the right defense, ceding ground to Germany in the process. I figured this attack was free because even if Austria overreacted, I could always back off and prevent the total collapse of Austria's position. And if Austria reacts wrongly, Austria loses 1-2 centers, and I can start grinding through the Balkans to a 3-way draw.

1909-10: Austria overreacts way harder than was necessary, in a way that I think was actually detrimental to Austria's long-term prospects. Losing home centers to Germany only makes it easier for me to grind Austria out later, and it's not as though Germany is a realistic threat to solo from a few Austrian centers. There was still ample time to mop up the Balkans and kick Germany out of its Austrian gains.

Italy is starting to lose the fight in the Mediterranean, which is the one actual problem for me - while I figured I would eventually deliver the mercy kill to Italy, now is far too early. I resign myself to a massive draw, I vote Draw here, and I keep signaling support holds.

1911: I wait until the fall to spring into action, because I needed to see that Austria understood that I genuinely wanted to help this time. Austria shows me in spring that I'm clear to go, and I move up to seal the line in Ukraine/Sevastopol and move to Ionian Sea to help defend Italy.

1912: More defensive posturing. Germany's stab is unexpected... seemed a bit early, but maybe with an army instead of a 2nd fleet build, it works.

1913: I back off the Russian front as I'm no longer needed there. Germany loses ground. It's probably time to withdraw the Draw vote and really try to beat Austria this time... but the game draws before I get a chance to check and do it. (And honestly, being the last holdout on four centers is a precarious spot anyway.)

I think there was still some play to this game, but life gets in the way.
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ColoBoy
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#87 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:48 am

Game #5 created - password is gbeog

Pinecone333
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#88 Post by Pinecone333 » Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:49 am

Joined!

Jables
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#89 Post by Jables » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:12 am

England’s Retrospective on Game 3: https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=339888

First I want to say thanks to ColoBoy for organizing these games, and thanks to everybody for playing with such commitment. This was my first time playing vs. humans on WebDip and my fourth game of Diplomacy (not counting bot games). I really enjoyed it and the EOG expectation was the key — it transformed the game for me. Knowing we would discuss the game gave me something to look forward to and made me take it a lot more seriously, and keeping a journal of my thoughts elevated my play massively. Unfortunately I don’t think I’ll be able to take part in another game like this any time soon, because I found it intensely distracting from my real life work and at times a source of stress. I’ll be putting Diplomacy on hiatus for awhile but I love the hobby and the community at WebDip. Thanks again.

Preface: My retrospective focuses almost entirely on England, Germany, France, Italy, and Russia. For most of the game I was not thinking very deeply about Austria or Turkey.

1901: Straightforward. The only point of interest may be my move to Belgium rather than Brest. Once the turn happened and I realized I would have gotten Brest, I was kicking myself for not taking the chance, but with later reflection I now stand by my move. I would do it again in a future game. I ended 1901 with two builds, a good start.

1902: With my builds I decided to commit to fighting France, hoping for Germany to work with me. I didn’t think I would make any quick gains, but it’s just too easy for France to bust England wide open with those two northern fleets. Russia’s army build in StP helped this work well. I played mainly defensively vs. France and Russia for several years from this point, just trying to hold onto the 5 centres I had ended 1901 with. The collab with Germany started to take off, with us following each other’s signals to gain/hold centres.

1903: Continued defensive play. I convoyed the army back to England from Norway to try to decisively shut down France from invading, which worked. France moved back out to MAO in Autumn. Germany and Italy started making serious progress against France this year. I was pretty concerned by Italy taking Mar and Spa and building two fleets.

1904: At this point France was locked down and no longer a threat, and I was becoming very concerned about a German stab. At the same time Germany had continued with constructive signals. I wanted to keep a fleet stationed in North Sea to hold it against Germany, and decided to take up Germany’s invitation to convoy back to Norway and get the campaign against Russia going. I knew I would be up against Italy’s fleets soon but figured I had a year or two to get a build from capturing St. Petersburg.

Autumn, 1904 was my first big success. Got Brest, and by poking Picardy enabled Germany to hold Paris and make the capture. France was down to just the one fleet turtling in Portugal, and I got a build. I was asked about the attempted convoy to Belgium — I’ll paste from my play-by-play journal: “I try the convoy from Edinburgh to Belgium just in case my Belgium fleet moves successfully and Burgundy or Holland move to take Belgium. I want my fleet still in North Sea in Spring to potentially convoy the Army to Norway, hence the convoy order rather than just moving North Sea to Belgium, which would require an extra move to be back in position to convoy. Whether the convoy is successful or bounces, either way I think it's fine with me.”

1905: I wanted to get St. Petersburg and start going after Iberia. I had to rely on the E/G alliance to hold strong. The game continued in this vein from here until 1912 — me contending with Italy for Iberia and the Mediterranean, pushing armies into Russia, and maintaining the E/G.

1906: This was a big decision point for me in E/G. I had seen Germany signal for me to order my army Norway – Finland, which, with my North Sea fleet moving to Norway, could then take down St. Petersburg. I distrusted this, concerned that Germany would stab me at this point, but at the last minute decided to take the risk. It turned out well, with Germany sticking with our alliance and me taking St. Petersburg this year.

In the west, I had no idea how things would end up playing out vs. Italy. I found the positions very complex and I lacked experience with the tactics of breaking into Iberia/the Med. Initially I was depending on Germany to get Mar, but later on I started taking the initiative and intensely sandboxing most moves on Backstabbr to try to outguess Italy.

1907: Basically just getting units in position this year. Germany got Marseilles which put a crack in Iberia. And with my army in Livonia, Germany and I could start working on Warsaw-Moscow.

I was really pleased with Germany’s move to Tyrolia this year. Nice play!

1908: Pushing armies into Russia, lining fleets up vs. Italy. I didn’t actually want my North Sea fleet to move to ENG, I was just insuring that Italy wouldn’t sneak into ENG. This whole part of the game I wanted to keep North Sea blocked vs. Germany, but sometimes moved the fleet out briefly for one reason or another.

I worked hard sandboxing the positions in Iberia/the Med and correctly guessed that I would get into North Africa, which gave me the opening for ultimately taking Iberia and entering the Mediterranean in force.

1909: Continued the pressure on Italy’s fleets, with some success, although I didn’t guess perfectly (could have taken Portugal here). Again I thought Germany was playing well and we were pretty in sync. I was still concerned about a German stab though.

I must say I’m proud of my play this year. I’ll quote from my play-by-play journal:
“My initial order was Western Med to Spain South coast, supported by Mid-Atlantic. My thinking was that Western Med could be blown up by a concerted attack from gulf of Leon or Tyrhennian Sea or and so I'd better get it out of there and try to take Spain. I saw that Gulf of Lyons could potentially hold Spain and so I hope that the Marseille army would also repeat its previous order and support me into Spain. But on sandboxing it I realized that Marseille would have to support Piedmont because Piedmont could get blown up by an attack from Venice, Tuscany, and Gulf of Lyons. And I also realized that Italy could order the fleet in Spain to attack Western Med and support it with any or all of the three fleets, and this would block Western Med moving to Spain and blow it up. I also guessed, correctly, that the fleet in Spain might move to Portugal to bounce me from Portugal. Glad I didn't try that.”
“Now this was a complex scenario to game out: a lot of units in play, and a lot of guesswork. But I concluded that my best chance would be to order the Mid-Atlantic fleet to Spain supported by Western Med and to order the North Africa fleet to attack Tunis. I figured the fleet in Spain would either move to Portugal and let me into Spain or would attack Western Med with enough to support to succeed, again vacating Spain and letting me in. But if Italy ordered one of its fleets to attack Western Med, it would either be Spain or Gulf of Lyons, because Tunis needed to hold with support from Tyrhennian Sea, or risk me taking Tunis. I figured by ordering my North Africa fleet to attack Tunis, I would cut the support for any attack on my fleet in Western Med and decrease the chances of it getting dislodged. Finally, if I did get into Spain from Mid-Atlantic Ocean and my Western Mediterranean fleet was successfully attacked and dislodged, it could then just retreat to Mid-Atlantic ocean rather than getting blown up.”
“I guessed right by not ordering the fleet to Portugal. I guessed right by attacking Tunis, thereby saving my fleet in Western Mediterranean. And I did get into Spain.”

I moved North Sea to Belgium because I still wanted to guard against the German backstab, especially now that Germany appeared to be reaching the limits of its expansion. There were six English centers just sitting there behind him with only two units guarding them. I figured this might be the turn for a backstab with Holland moving to Belgium, Sweden moving to Norway, and maybe Denmark moving to North Sea. By ordering my fleet to Belgium I insured that if Holland tried to take Belgium it would bounce, and my fleet standing in North Sea would also bounce a move from Denmark.

In actual fact Germany was absolutely calm and reliable this whole time, but still I had six centres guarded by two units, I thought it was wise to at least show that I'm watching them and keeping them guarded, perhaps with slightly unpredictable moves.

1910: This was another big decision point. Initially my intention was to convoy my newly-built army to Portugal, and I set up for that in Spring. But with Germany taking Trieste (which impressed me BTW) I became very anxious about a German backstab. I counted Germany’s centres and saw that it might be possible for Germany to get up to 12 from here, then backstab me for 6 centres very swiftly since I was leaving myself so wide open.

In Autumn I decided to reverse course and pull all my fleets backwards to cover Brest and North Sea. I repositioned the army to convoy it to Norway, and instead took Portugal with a fleet.

Autumn, 1910 is the turn when I most expected Germany to turn on me and seize Belgium and Norway, move into North Sea, maybe attack Spain, etc. I was hugely relieved when it didn’t happen but I resolved to keep North Sea garrisoned, with a second fleet in ENG or Bel to support-hold.

1911: I made another good guess here which got me into Gulf of Lyons. Germany supported me into Moscow which really reassured me about our alliance. Here I was becoming concerned that Austria and Turkey might start cooperating to block E/G definitively.

In the Autumn turn I made what I consider my biggest mistake of the game. I miscalculated that Trieste would support Venice, so I was sure that my fleet in Gulf of Lyons poking Tuscany would not make enough difference to let Germany capture Venice. I was incorrect. Here’s my reaction from my journal: “ARGH! M*****! Ah man. I'm so frustrated with my mistake last turn. If I had poked Tuscany, Germany would’ve gotten Venice, and that would be the beginning of the end for Italy. Germany would’ve gotten a build which could defend Warsaw. Now with Turkey coming to help against us I don’t know if Germany will be able to get anymore builds, and Italy might become impregnable. So mad that I screwed that up.”

Apart from that failure, I still made progress against Italy.

1912: My only note on the Spring turn is that I signalled Germany that he could take Belgium from me, because I judged that my newly-built army was not of much benefit and that Germany getting a build would be of more use. I was strongly committed to E/G at this point and I wanted to signal my spirit of cooperation, and try to keep our momentum going after my failure to get Germany into Venice last year.

Obviously Germany stabbed me in Autumn. Had it not been for that, I think this would’ve been a breakthrough for E/G vs. A/I/T. I was really pleased with my Autumn, 1912 attack on Tyrrhenian Sea. I thought a lot about the psychology of my opponents, especially Turkey, and made the right guess. From here I was set up to take Tunis next year, force a disband on Italy, and probably we would’ve been on the way to eliminating Italy entirely.

One big error I made here was not having my army in Norway hold position. Because of that, Germany got 3 centres with the stab.

As soon as the turn rolled and I saw that Germany had stabbed me, I put up my Draw vote. Up to that point my endgame plan wasn’t too clear, I just knew I wanted to see how far we could take E/G: eliminate Italy? eliminate Austria? go all the way to 17-17? Probably ridiculous, I presumed Germany would stab me before then, but in any case I wasn’t ready for a draw. But once Germany stabbed I wanted to signal to A/I/T that I would form a stalemate line with them to block a German solo attempt. Hence I disbanded units that faced Italy/Turkey and set myself to form a line.

1913: I just wanted to take back as many centres as I could to offset additional losses, and to make it as laborious and annoying as possible for Germany to get my home centres. I had expected Turkey to take Moscow and then support-hold it from Sev perpetually.

And that was it! Later on I’ll try to sketch out a few thoughts on the E/G alliance in this game from my point of view and my take-aways.
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Hithlum
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#90 Post by Hithlum » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:09 am

gunboat with EOG expectation #3, Russia

My journal is a very short one so I'll post it here.

Spring, 1901: S 1901. Going for the Trust No One scenario with focus on the south. A War-Gal will keep my options to a maximum. Austria will expect it and won't hold it agaist me.

6 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1901: A 1901. A War-Gal bounced as expected. I'll secure Rumania with A Ukr-Rum and bounce German's F Den-Swe with F GOB-Swe. Not sure what to do with A War.

7 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1901: Turkey made a friendly move which I like to honor. F Ank-Con and not BLK and support into Rumania is nice indeed. Surprised that F GOB-Swe didn't bounce and got me a build from Sweden. Germany let it go to show England good intentions. England putting an army in Norway is expected, but not in my best interest. Building A Stp to protect from Norway or even capture it.

9 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1902: S 1902. Holding this turn to see what mu neighbours are up to. Answering the friendly gesture from Turkey.
A 1902. Wow, Austria taking on both me and Turkey. With all holds nothing lost. Not clear what Italy intends, but Italy is usually slow with chosing sides.

11 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1902: Germany and England working together against France. I'm kicked out of Sweden, but it was really unexpected to capture it in the first place. Austria now supporting Rumania, is he friendly now? Same with Turkey, after moving against me now supporting. I already decided to answer hostilities against started by Austria. Italy is moving towards Spain, probably to get a part of the spoils from German attack. Now that Italy moves away, what will Turkey do? Really hope he joins me against Austria.

12 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1903: A 1903. Austria no longer attacks me or Turkey and goes Germany instead? Italy goes back and forth, but with no threat from France the focus is still the east.

13 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1903: A 1903 Austria moves to strike at Galicia it seems. Turkey not doing anything now.

15 Jan 2021 Spring, 1904: S 1904. Not sure what Austria is up to moving to Silesia. With Turkey finally showing some action I have to shift my focus there. Not much I can do besides hold and hope Italy is moving east.

16 Jan 2021 Spring, 1904: Good news: Italy is moving east.
Bad news: Turkey and Austria both attacking me. Germany and England coming for me as well (incoming convoy A Edi-Nwy). Me against four, I don´t like the odds. A race for the spoils of Russia!

17 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1904: With two units disbanded this makes an impossible situation. Rumania and Sevastopol are surely lost and Warsaw is sure to go this turn.

20 Jan 2021 Spring, 1905: S 1905. Surprised that Austria didn't move to Warsaw and England not going farther east. Austria and Turkey now going for each other, let's see if I can support one. France is almost gone, where will Germany go next?

21 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1905: A 1905. Englands moves to Norway and Barents coming now, I'll need to support hold StP. Turkey and Austria busy with each other.

25 Jan 2021 Autumn, 1906: S 1906. England moving in on StP. Nothing I can do to hold it so I'll use my A Moscow to support hold Warsaw against Germany.

Thu 11 Feb Autumn, 1911: S 1911. Nowhere to go so this is it for me.
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teccles
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#91 Post by teccles » Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:10 pm

With apologies for lateness, my EOG thoughts on Game 4.

I was Italy, and overall I never made much progress, hanging around for a while but failing to expand beyond the obvious 4 centres at any point. This can happen to Italy; it has great flexibility, but the other side of that can is that if you play things wrong (and/or things don't go your way) you can end up trying multiple things and having none of them work out.

In Spring 1901, I planned to play an opening that I haven't seen written about, which in my head is called the Evil Lepanto. It was played to great effect in the final of Nexus Gunboat Season 1. The idea is that Italy plays the Lepanto, holding VEN in Spring and grabbing TRI in Autumn. Italy builds two fleets, and Austria may have little choice but to ally with them.

However, France opening to PIE made that a non-starter, because an empty VEN in Autumn 1901 and 1902 was too big a risk. Turkey bringing their fleet out also made it hard for me to attack them. Nevertheless, I decided to carry on with my Lepanto - I think it's good even if Italy doesn't want to attack Turkey, as having ION in Spring 1902 is usually good. I also wanted to be in position in case Russia attack Turkey - their fleet move to RUM was a pity.

In 1902, Turkey's fleets made an attack on them no good, and pretty much tied up both my fleets defending ION. With France in Tyrolia, my option for expansion became extremely limited. In Autumn I headed up to Tyrolia, hoping France would have an incentive to support me to MUN and get that third fleet on the board (even if I lost MUN later).

Things changed a bit in 1903, as Russia attacked Turkey. It's here that I think I had ways to force an opening, though they are more easily seen in hindsight. In Spring 1904, here were two main paths to expansion:
- Attack Turkey, aiming to get SMY and then ally with Russia against Austria.
- Attack France. I suspected (correctly) that France was looking to attack England soon, as there was a good opportunity and their expansion prospects elsewhere weren't great.

I went for the first of these. As it happens, attacking France immediately would have gone marvellously well; but I think at the time it wasn't clear. My bigger mistake - and I think my biggest of the game - came in Autumn 1904. I made an attack on SMY which was never going to work; I should have attacked CON, which would have shown Russia my hand (and indeed worked). Making a clear offer of a Wintergreen was the thing to do, and failing to do it cost me the game.

After that, there is little to say. I knew my move to EAS in Spring 1905 was a large risk; France's move was not unexpected. But I felt I had to gamble to make working with me attractive for Russia. I lost that gamble, but I think the writing was already on the wall before that.

In other EOGs, my mistake in not attacking Austria in 1904 was noted. The other suggestion was from Turkey, that I should have allied with them when Russia attacked. This I disagree with - attacking France would have worked, but actively working with Turkey against Austria had no real prospect of me making gains.

It was a well-played game overall; thanks to all my fellow players.

ColoBoy
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#92 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:20 pm

Italy's EOG from #3.

Thanks everyone for a good game. I’ll be especially interested (once I read comments and EOGs) in understanding why E/G lasted so long. Another thanks to Jasnah, who served as a sounding board and mentor, which definitely improved my play.

My strategy was based on being convinced that A/I conflict early on is fatal to both and that A would know that. I opened to Pie and Apu to demonstrate that and see what the board was looking like. I moved back to Ven in the fall to get some utility from that army and hoped A wouldn’t worry too much. I’d be interested to know A’s perspective on my moves to/from Ven and Tyr and if they ever seemed threatening. I harassed F with Pie in hopes of inducing an attack by E or G. At the end of ‘01 there hadn’t been any surprises, with R/T shaping up and E probably setting up against F. T was the big variable for my plans. I sat tight in the spring to see what others would do and based on T not sending two fleets my way and both E and G moving on F decided to go west in hopes of getting in Iberia.

With three attackers, France was doomed and I got my part of the spoils easily. A/I seemed solid enough and T wasn’t a threat, but A/T were cooperating against R. Spring ‘04 E moved north! I might have done better if I moved west a bit faster instead of making sure of Ion, but it felt critical to hold Ion, especially if A/T developed further. I also wondered about sending MAO to Iri, but didn’t want to risk F taking Spa. E, did that possibility occur to you? E’s ‘04 attempted convoy to Bel was interesting and I’d like to know what was behind it.

In ‘05 A attacked T (good) and E moved south in force. That was the start of a frustrating period with E and G tightly allied to take R out and push me back. At first I thought E would stab and then G, but no. They each left stab opportunities on the table. There was little drama in the east, with T never making a serious attempt to move west and nothing much happening between A and T. The one exception was in ‘08-’09 A appeared to allow G to cross the line and take Tri. I’m really curious about the thinking there. A turned around and pushed back successfully. T clearly realized the E/G threat early and made it clear to the board.

Germany and England, your thoughts on your alliance will be interesting. Turkey, do you feel you could have been more aggressive?

I’m sure I’m missing some important developments, but here you go. Thanks again
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ColoBoy
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#93 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:22 pm

Russia's EOG for #2

Thanks everyone for a good game! I am writing before having reviewed your comments and questions. I’ll respond after sending this.

I toyed with a northern opening but decided to make the more common opening for Rum as I assumed there would be experienced players and I wanted to avoid committing too early. In Autumn I moved to Ukr to open War for an army and took Rum with the army to try and set up R/T vs. A. With England’s success and apparent desire to work with Germany, I changed plans and built F StP nc, which I think could have wrecked my game. In retrospect, I wish I’d built A War even at the expense of StP.

France was going down fast, so in ‘02 I hoped to defend against Austria, and avoid E/G vs R. With the failure to build an army, I hoped to get Turkey damaging Austria enough to divert forces away from attacking me. Germany supported me to Nor and then built fleets, which I thought indicated success on that front.

For ‘03, I’d like to know why Germany chose to take Swe before turning on England as that pretty much bottled me up in the north. With Italy turning west, I hoped to see Turkey making progress, but no such luck. I/A served them both well. I’m curious if either of them entertained breaking it at any point. Turkey, why didn’t you ever force Ion? After Spring ‘03 I felt that my game was shot and I’d be hanging on from there, which was one thing I got right :-).

For the next few years I feel I defended pretty well against Austria, but with F StP sc, had no influence on the north without provoking Germany. In ‘04 I predicted A/I/G and my best hope was to become important to a line stopping a German solo. In ‘05 there was brief hope that Germany might try to get across the line, which would finally get some pressure on Austria. Germany, did you consider trying to push south then? If not, why not?

In ‘08 I thought I might be able to grab Swe and it was clear that Germany wasn’t going to be of any help. Germany, did you anticipate that lunge? That failure was the last nail in my coffin even if you didn’t bury me for a few years.

Take-aways - one poor build choice can doom you. I probably would have been better off sticking to the original strategy rather than switching right away.

I look forward to your comments, thoughts and questions, if any.

thamrick
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#94 Post by thamrick » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:34 pm

ColoBoy wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:48 am
Game #5 created - password is gbeog
Am I missing something or is this game set up as not gunboat?

ColoBoy
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#95 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:45 pm

You're right thamrick. Not sure what happened...

here's a gunboat game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=346737

pw = gbeog

thamrick
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Location: Indiana
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#96 Post by thamrick » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:00 am

ColoBoy wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:45 pm
You're right thamrick. Not sure what happened...

here's a gunboat game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=346737

pw = gbeog
I'm definitely interested in joining this format and somehow missed the opportunity for this one. I'll keep an eye out for the next one

Hithlum
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#97 Post by Hithlum » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:53 pm

So we've come to an end! Thanks for the interesting game all! I will start with my EOG: https://pastebin.com/jsLTHKHC

AnimalsCS
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#98 Post by AnimalsCS » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:54 pm

Hithlum wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:53 pm
So we've come to an end! Thanks for the interesting game all! I will start with my EOG: https://pastebin.com/jsLTHKHC
You can see the results of the game here: https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=346737

I have posted the link to my AAR there. Specifically, I think there was a way that another player could have soloed as Italy in this game. Where do you all think I made mistakes that decreased my chances of a solo?

Computer_Genius
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#99 Post by Computer_Genius » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:35 am

Game 5, I was playing Russia

My raw notes during the game can be found here: https://pastebin.com/wwK0ZhiM

I think I did pretty well overall in the opening, ending up with two builds. What I didn't expect was Austria deciding to start attacking me over what I perceived as a typical bounce. At the same time, Germany also decided to attack me and ended up behind my defence lines as I only had the A War in the north. I thought I was done for in Autumn 1903, but I guessed correctly and Germany didn't make the obvious move. I chose to borrow a centre from Turkey so I could have enough units to defend against Austria and Germany simultaneously, but that was to no avail and I rapidly lost ground from there. There was a brief glimmer of hope for me in 1906, but I blew it by moving to Armenia. From then on Italy slowly chipped away at me, and I was finally eliminated in Autumn 1909.

Egathetos
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Re: seeking players for gunboat with EOG discussion so we can improve

#100 Post by Egathetos » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:02 am

I am very much interested in this and I'll keep an eye out.

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