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Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:08 pm
by Bark
If someone else is about to solo after the autumn move, and I still have units but just lost all of my centers, will I survive or am I eliminated?

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:52 pm
by dipperjay
Bark wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:08 pm
If someone else is about to solo after the autumn move, and I still have units but just lost all of my centers, will I survive or am I eliminated?
That is logged as a survival.

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:37 pm
by Bark
dipperjay wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:52 pm
Bark wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:08 pm
If someone else is about to solo after the autumn move, and I still have units but just lost all of my centers, will I survive or am I eliminated?
That is logged as a survival.
Thanks!

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:15 am
by David E. Cohen
That is very strange. The adjudication that would give the winner the dots necessary to solo would be the same adjudication that would reduce the questioner's total number of dots to zero. Am I missing something here?

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:21 am
by A_Tin_Can
The rulebook says that anyone with units on the board is a survivor. Adjustments to remove units happen after centres are counted.

I'm surprised it works this way on webdip, though. I would have thought it would be an elimination. In practice, this subtlety doesn't matter much.

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:43 am
by David E. Cohen
I never really thought about it, since it doesn't make a difference to me, but yeah, you are right. For a quantum of time, that is true

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:58 am
by yavuzovic
Actually you can even survive without units on the board. If they dislodge you and it's the retreats turn, you don't have a unit that can be seen. We can even say that you don't have a unit in any way if there is nowhere you can retreat to. Then, if you draw, you can survive and join the draw as a side without land or units :)

Re: Do I survive with units but no centers?

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:49 pm
by DougJoe
A_Tin_Can wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:21 am
The rulebook says that anyone with units on the board is a survivor. Adjustments to remove units happen after centres are counted.
The latest version of the rulebook online only seems to count "pieces on the board" as a criteria of who gets in a draw, not who "survives" in a solo:

"As soon as one Great Power controls 18 supply centers, it’s considered to have gained control of Europe. The player representing that Great Power is the winner. However, players can end the game by agreement before a winner is determined.]In this case, all players who still have pieces on the game board share equally in a draw."

...in fact there dosen't appear to be any deifined criteria for "survival" at all.
A_Tin_Can wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:21 am
I'm surprised it works this way on webdip, though. I would have thought it would be an elimination. In practice, this subtlety doesn't matter much.
Agreed, it probably doesn't really matter much... although for my own internal stat tracking for games against the bots, I count being at zero supply centers when somebody else hits 18+ as an elimination. A quick scan of my bot games comes up with 4 out of 182 where it's happened (2%). Maybe it's more common in human games, I dunno.