I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

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ColoBoy
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I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#1 Post by ColoBoy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:59 pm

Hi - I'm having much difficulty figuring out why I'm struggling to not get eliminated, much less getting better results. Anyone up for reviewing some games with me and providing advice? Thanks, ColoBoy
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Lord Farquard
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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#2 Post by Lord Farquard » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:22 am

I'm open for it. I'm no master by any means, but I'd like to think I'm a reasonably strong player.

There's also some information from Brother Bored's Blogs that I have found to be incredibly useful.
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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#3 Post by Lord Farquard » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:23 am

Can you please post the games here that you would like me to look over?

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#4 Post by ColoBoy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:37 am

Thanks! I've read BrotherBored, which is excellent, and will post some games shortly. Much appreciated!

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#5 Post by ColoBoy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:46 am

Here are the last few completed games Lord Farquand:

gunboat for 30 diplobucks
gunboat for players who try to ally
detente IV
gunboat 1041
Autumn fun -26
gunboat training
excuse me - 22

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pyxxy
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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#6 Post by pyxxy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:55 am

Fyi, people tend to like hyperlinks to games rather than game names. Easier to get to them and what not. For convenience, here's a search query for your games with no press https://webdiplomacy.net/gamelistings.p ... ch#results

Before I check out your most recent game, my two cents as someone who's been playing gunboat for just over a year now (aka recently a newbie). It took me a while to see improvement, and even longer to actually feel improvement. Partially because that's how learning works, partially because gunboat games can take weeks to months, other reasons, etc. So you might think you're terrible, but it's hard to know for sure :razz:

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#7 Post by pyxxy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:52 am

gunboat for players who try to ally - you were England

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

@Lord Farquard, sorry if I’m stepping on your toes by posting twice before you got to share any of your insights.

S01:
Reasonable opening given the meta.

A01:
Reasonable followup. Belgium was clearly going to be contested, possible that Germany could have supported you in, but convoy to Norway is less risky because Russia will sometimes avoid bouncing you (as they did here) in order to build in StP.

W01:
I would be curious who you were planning to attack with F EDI. Because it shouldn’t be France. It’s a pretty reasonable build if you’re trying to E/G against Russia in the north. It risks turning Germany against you, as it’s another fleet not being used to fight France. But I actually think this was an opportunity to develop into an E/F the next year, if you focused on securing Norway, positioned yourself for StP or Sweden, by which point France gets their 5th center and will have to decide who they are attacking. Perfectly reasonable to leave a fleet in London during the entire year, or to keep bouncing in the channel, while you wait for this situation to develop.

S02:
If you wanted to attack France this year, you probably should have just built F LVP? Sending your fleet to Yorkshire looks like a misguided attack on France, because it’s one of those awkward moves to get closer to somewhere by awkwardly scooting around an occupied space, NTH in this case.

I think you made a reasonable choice to build F EDI and you should have stuck to what I assume was your plan, to defend Norway as part of an E/G. That means EDI to NWG. Bouncing the channel again (turns out it failed, but still) is fine. You can’t assume kindness from France here. But following through with EDI to NWG was the better play here.

NWY to SWE and NTH following into NWY is fine? Given that Germany was going to get BEL, you might guess that they would support you into SWE. And in a world where EDI goes to NWG, there’s no need to send NTH anywhere else (and you don’t want to leave NTH vacant and give Germany any ideas). You could have done something riskier and sent NTH to SKA (with the option to backfill NTH with LON), but that might have pissed off Germany.

A02:
Fyi, I won’t carry over any moves suggestions for multiple turns. I’ll always write based on what state the board was in during the game.

France mostly held in the spring…which is strange. All hold happens, people ready by accident. Only moving 1 unit is weird. I would instantly label them as unreliable and not much of a potential ally.

Norway is lost if Russia wants it, and Sweden might fall into German hands in that case. I think the right move here is to cut your losses and ignore trying to defend Norway. Even if you lose it, you’ve turned that army into a fleet which is better than nothing, and you should position yourself now to regain a 4th center next year. Problem is, nothing really looks that easy to capture.

This is a rough turn and I’ve already written a bunch so I’ll stop for now and pick this up tomorrow or something. Last thought is that you could have guessed that Germany would try to send Belgium to Picardy, either the way they did or with support from Burgundy. If you make that guess, you could have done a supported attack on Belgium, either sending ENG there or convoying Norway there and hoping that France doesn’t cut ENG. Yes, you’re attacking your ally, so it’s a gamble. But Scandanavia seems closed off and repositioning to attack France might take too long to make any meaningful gains. Just a moveset that I saw so I wanted to write it down in case I forgot it by next time.
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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#8 Post by jasnah » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:00 pm

The actual best way to improve (I'm fully aware that this isn't an option for everyone) is to stop playing public games, for which quality control is basically nonexistent, and play private games repeatedly against a group of reliable players who like to post-mortem.

Pyxxy is being very generous with his time and is an excellent player who should be writing correct information. (I don't know for sure. I haven't checked. I can't be bothered.) However at the end of the day, no observer can have as good a "feel" of your games and as thorough an understanding of the situations encountered within them as your fellow players, who experienced each turn in real time and more importantly can give you insight into how your opponents were thinking because they were those opponents.

I don't have time to look through your games and would probably not be able to give very detailed/helpful advice if I did, but I could potentially play a game with you at some point or get you connected with, well, reliable players who like to post-mortem. Dm me.

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#9 Post by RoganJosh » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:09 pm

If there's something that's really missing from today's online environment, then it's the post-mortem / AAR / EOG. I wonder if we could do something to bring them back.

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#10 Post by jasnah » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:12 pm

RoganJosh wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:09 pm
If there's something that's really missing from today's online environment, then it's the post-mortem / AAR / EOG. I wonder if we could do something to bring them back.
Agreed. I AAR aggressively in my private games but there I can generally count on other players to be receptive to/engaged with discussion; in public games any chat beyond "gg" (sometimes even that) seems to be sorely lacking.

There's a strong and growing gunboat community on Nexus though which is where I find the most post-mortem engagement to be these days.
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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#11 Post by Ezio » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:29 pm

IMO the best way to improve is to play a ton of games. There's something to be said for playing games against high quality opponents, but I think it matters more to just play a ton.
Look after your own games ofc helps, but not nearly as much as playing more games.
The bots are not ideal ofc, but they do move quickly and let you get many games in. They play normally and solidly in the early game, so if you can get out of the early game it means you're probably playing fine.

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Re: I'm terrible at gunboat - any mentors out there?

#12 Post by ColoBoy » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:34 am

thank you all for your time and helpful replies. The game review is great and I'm very interested in private games with EOG/AAR dialog as a learning method. I will post separately in the forum to find others who are interested so I can set up some games. A grateful ColoBoy
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