Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

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CommanderByron
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Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#1 Post by CommanderByron » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:23 am

Welcome Mentors and Apprentices-

Below is a workshop for you to tease your mind and critically think about the game of diplomacy. These workshops will occur on a monthly basis with off months in December and January.

THE AREA IN BOLD IS THE ACTIVITY TITLE
The area directly below is the description of the activity.

---------------------------------------------------------------- lines break up activities

FORESIGHT A
This activity is meant to strengthen your deduction of the board; where pieces will be at adjudication and how to predict the flow of the game. Here I will give you the orders from all 7 powers and you must determine what the board will look like at adjudication.

France:
The army at Burgundy move to Ruhr.
The army at Marseilles move to Burgundy.
The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to English Channel.
The army at Paris support move to Burgundy from Marseilles.
The army at Belgium support move to Ruhr from Burgundy.
England:
The army at Norway move to St. Petersburg.
The fleet at North Sea move to Norway.
The army at London move to Yorkshire.
The fleet at Barents Sea support move to St. Petersburg from Norway.
Russia:
The fleet at Sevastopol move to Rumania.
The fleet at Sweden move to Norway.
The army at Moscow move to Livonia.
The army at Rumania move to Galicia.
The army at Warsaw support move to Galicia from Rumania.
Turkey:
The army at Bulgaria move to Serbia.
The army at Syria move to Smyrna.
The fleet at Constantinople move to Bulgaria (South Coast).
The fleet at Black Sea support move to Bulgaria from Constantinople.
Austria:
The army at Galicia move to Rumania.
The fleet at Albania support hold to Greece.
The army at Budapest support hold to Serbia.
The army at Serbia support move to Rumania from Galicia.
Italy:
The army at Apulia move to Tunis via convoy.
The army at Greece move to Bulgaria.
The fleet at Eastern Mediterranean move to Aegean Sea.
The fleet at Ionian Sea convoy to Tunis from Apulia.
Germany:
The fleet at Denmark move to North Sea.
The army at Munich move to Burgundy.
The army at Ruhr move to Belgium.
The army at Holland support move to Ruhr from Belgium.

Discuss these moves below but do not post the answers; in 1 week we will post the answers in this subforum. Feel free to talk to other apprentices or mentors here. You may use a 3rd party adjudicator, physical board, or write out the position of each unit after the phase end; whatever is easiest for you.
-------------------------------------------
FORESIGHT B
This activity is meant to strengthen your deduction of the board; where pieces will be at adjudication and how to predict the flow of the game. Here I will give you the orders from all 7 powers and you must determine what the board will look like at adjudication.

England:
The fleet at London hold.
France:
The fleet at Mid-Atlantic Ocean move to English Channel.
The fleet at English Channel move to London.
The army at Picardy move to Belgium.
The army at Ruhr move to Holland.
The fleet at North Atlantic Ocean move to Clyde.
The fleet at Wales support move to London from English Channel.
The army at Burgundy support move to Munich from Bohemia.
Italy:
The fleet at Tyrrhenian Sea hold.
The army at Bohemia move to Munich.
The army at Vienna move to Bohemia.
The army at Trieste move to Vienna.
The fleet at Ionian Sea support hold to Greece.
The army at Greece support move to Bulgaria from Serbia.
The army at Tyrolia support move to Munich from Bohemia.
Germany:
The fleet at Skagerrack move to North Sea.
The army at Denmark move to Kiel.
The army at Silesia move to Munich.
The fleet at North Sea move to Edinburgh.
The army at Holland support move to Kiel from Denmark.
The army at Berlin support move to Munich from Silesia.
Austria:
The army at Sevastopol move to Moscow.
Turkey:
The army at Rumania move to Galicia.
The fleet at Black Sea move to Bulgaria (North Coast).
The army at Armenia move to Sevastopol.
The fleet at Aegean Sea move to Bulgaria (South Coast).
The army at Serbia support hold to Budapest.
The army at Ukraine support move to Moscow from Sevastopol.
The army at Budapest support move to Galicia from Rumania.
Russia:
The fleet at Sweden hold.
The army at Livonia move to Warsaw.
The army at Galicia move to Ukraine.
The fleet at Norway support hold to Sweden.
The army at Moscow support move to Ukraine from Galicia.

Discuss these moves below but do not post the answers; in 1 week we will post the answers in this subforum. Feel free to talk to other apprentices or mentors here. You may use a 3rd party adjudicator, physical board, or write out the position of each unit after the phase end; whatever is easiest for you.
---------------------------------------------------------
DIPLOMACY
Here is a snippet of information from a finished game. What are your thoughts on these players communications. What would you change? Can you decipher what each player wants from the other?

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Hello, my Russian friend. We drew two of the best countries in my opinion. What would you say to starting a Juggernaut? We could easily sweep west and take out Austria, Germany, and the others later on. Obviously it would take some coordination, but we could definitely pull it off!

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: I am definitely interested. My first concern however is the Blacksea. How should we handle that considering neither of us wishes to have the other in that space

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Well the thing that almost always works is a bounce. What would you say to that?

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: Certainly in favor. So bounce Black Sea for 1901. I want to feel out press to determine what units I have available to assist against Austria. For now let's assume I have Warsaw available. How would you like to see it move?

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Let's shy away from the predictable. What if you were to move it to Silesia, and then to Bohemia, while moving Moscow into Ukraine and then Galicia, with Sevastopol hitting Rumania in the Spring? That will certainly make it seem like you are pro-Austria the first phase, so he would be willing to trust you, temporarily of course... You'd gain at least two build this year (assuming Sweden), and you'd be in prime position to take Vienna.

In the south, I'd take Bulgaria, and depending on his moves, I'd bounce him in Greece or Serbia, so he would only get one build. That makes it easy for you to swoop in for the kill.

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: I'm concerned only that I don't get Rumania (if Austria goes for it early) but I'll do some press and see what's up. :) get back to you when Austria gets back to me.

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I've never seen that happen, but hey, this is Diplomacy! Who knows anymore? :-)

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: Austria finally spoke. He was curious if I'd be open to giving him Rumania. I declined l, I'm not to certain of my Galicia DMZ so here are my thoughts:
Bounce at Black Sea
Warsaw to Galicia
Moscow to Ukraine.
It's pretty vanilla but it's what I'm comfy with.

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: If you're good with it, then I am good with it!

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: Cool cool. Any word from Italy yet?

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: Nothing!

(To: Turkey, from Russia) - Spring, 1901: We may have a bigger issue if IA ally. I am hoping Italy is just bad at dip.

(To: Russia, from Turkey) - Spring, 1901: I have a feeling that isn't the case...but I could be wrong! We shall see.

This is all the S1901 Russia/Turkey press from a game involving a relatively successful juggernaut. What are your takeaways from this press?
(Also feel free to send in your own press if you have good examples; I need full copies of the messages archive for whatever game you are sending in; also make sure the game in finished as sending your press could compromise your game. Send a google doc, or word doc to webdipmentors@gmail.com)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all so much for your participation; stay tuned for the answer key February 6th, and next months workshop sometime end of February or early March.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#2 Post by Claesar » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:04 am

I would've questioned this part:
"What if you were to move it to Silesia, and then to Bohemia, while moving Moscow into Ukraine and then Galicia, with Sevastopol hitting Rumania in the Spring?"

That's a weird thing to say after just having agreed on a bounce in the Blacksea. It's also not a good reply to include Moscow in the plan when the question was "For now let's assume I have Warsaw available. How would you like to see it move?"

I think it's good that Turkey offered spicy moves, because it seems that's what Russia was asking for. But I would personally advise to give the neighbour the idea that you're actually reading what they say.

I like the Russian press, though I would advise that they should think about their goals. They're opening the door for a spicy suggestion from Turkey, only to immediately shoot it down and insist on the move 60% of the players make (rough estimate, for arguments sake). That feels a bit off to me, but it could be a well-considered srategy.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#3 Post by Mercy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:13 am

I found it particularly funny that Turkey suggested to Russia that he should move Warsaw to Silesia, and in the same message assumed that Germany would allow Russia access to Sweden.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#4 Post by CommanderByron » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:14 am

Mentors feel free to contact your apprentices to recommend they participate in the workshop :)

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#5 Post by President Eden » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:24 am

From Russia's side:
Let's shy away from the predictable. What if you were to move it to Silesia, and then to Bohemia, while moving Moscow into Ukraine and then Galicia, with Sevastopol hitting Rumania in the Spring? That will certainly make it seem like you are pro-Austria the first phase, so he would be willing to trust you, temporarily of course... You'd gain at least two build this year (assuming Sweden), and you'd be in prime position to take Vienna.

In the south, I'd take Bulgaria, and depending on his moves, I'd bounce him in Greece or Serbia, so he would only get one build. That makes it easy for you to swoop in for the kill.
If we assume Turkey is a competent player, this person wants to kill me and might as well have said so to save a lot of keystrokes. Acknowledged that we know this didn't actually happen, but this proposal is so overtly bad for Russia that I have to question the intentions of the person writing it.

(1) There is no chance Germany will let us have Sweden after we move to Silesia if we don't disclose that we're moving to Silesia in S01 as part of a feint to attack Austria. If we do disclose it, there is no chance that Germany doesn't mention this unorthodox suggestion to Austria, removing any element of surprise and, yes, probably still resulting in a bounce on Sweden. Either way, I'm getting bounced in Sweden, and I'm oddly vulnerable to Austria despite the fact that the whole point of the opening is to catch Austria by surprise and leave them highly vulnerable. Hard pass.

(2) As Cleasar already noted, we just agreed to a bounce, how am I moving to Romania in the same turn? I would buy that this is just careless oversight if it were the only error and don't assign much value to this (I think some players might overvalue it as a "gotcha").

(3) I'm taking all the risk right from Spring 1901, and Turkey gets to open completely conventionally? What gives? This is quite a bad omen. If Turkey didn't want a conventional opening, why not propose a DMZ in Black Sea and a move from Ankara to Constantinople? That would be an even trade for the incredibly risky opening Turkey wants me to play.
Austria finally spoke. He was curious if I'd be open to giving him Rumania.
Italy would be my best friend just for making a reasonable comment at this point.
Where is the Concede button?


edit: Full disclosure, I am a gunboat guy, I am probably way too bristly, aggressively blunt and focused on board position to give great advice on the diplomatic side of things. I do not suggest sending that exact reply or anything close to Turkey, but I would try to bring all of those points up in response.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#6 Post by Mercy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:40 am

I was thinking the exact same as you, President Eden, and I am not a gunboat player.

CommanderByron
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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#7 Post by CommanderByron » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:12 pm

Bump.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#8 Post by uclabb » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:07 pm

Yeah I would be strongly biased against working with Turkey based on this press.

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WorkShop 1.18 Answer Key

#9 Post by CommanderByron » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:05 pm

FORESIGHT A: gameID=213407 Autumn 1902

FORESIGHT B: gameID=213399 Autumn 1904

DIPLOMACY: To protect the identity of players this will not be revealed unless all parties agree.


ATTENTION: I AM IN SEARCH OF GOOD EXAMPLES OF WESTERN TRIPLE PRESS, LEPANTO PRESS, OR SUCCESSFUL TURKISH PRESS TO A GERMAN PLAYER REGARDING A BOUNCE IN SWEDEN. PLEASE SEND ANY EXAMPLES TO webdipmentors@gmail.com ENSURE YOU COPY AND PASTE THE ENTIRE MESSAGE ARCHIVE FOR YOUR GAME AND SEND. YOUR IDENTITY AND THE IDENTITY OF THE OTHER PLAYERS WILL NOT BE REVEALED UNLESS CONSENT BY ALL PARTIES IS GIVEN.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#10 Post by CommanderByron » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:08 pm

YOUR PRESS DOESNT HAVE TO BE SPECIAL, THE EXERCISE IS MORE CONCERNED WITH PROVIDING REAL PRESS EXAMPLES FOR PLAYERS TO TALK ABOUT.

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#11 Post by Claesar » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:40 am

I'd love to contribute, but I don't think I have any examples of those :-/ Let me know if you need examples on how to commit diplomatic suicide!

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#12 Post by CommanderByron » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:57 am

Feel free to email an example of that to email listed :)
Simply copy and paste your message archive into the email. :)

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Re: Mentor Program Workshop 1.18

#13 Post by CommanderByron » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Some conversation questions: now that we see the adjudication of Foresight A do we believe that the German support from Bel to Ruhr was a mistake? Was it part of a larger strategy?

In foresight B are there any moves you would change given hindsight and why?

In regards to the Diplomacy exercise; to what degree should Italian / Austrian press influence the decisions of Russia? Turkey? Why?

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