AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

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CCR
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#181 Post by CCR » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:14 am

Maybe that's because they play throwing the game and "know" how to behave on such situations - they even do the right supports to do it!, while albert is expecting a more rational play. Its analogous to the known fact that games with less skilled players end with more solos. A single good player can do nothing in such scenario.
I suggest you play fourteen games -seven games aefgirt against each set of bots - and say something from the experience.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#182 Post by bo_sox48 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:23 am

CCR wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:14 am
Maybe that's because they play throwing the game and "know" how to behave on such situations - they even do the right supports to do it!, while albert is expecting a more rational play. Its analogous to the known fact that games with less skilled players end with more solos. A single good player can do nothing in such scenario.
I suggest you play fourteen games -seven games aefgirt against each set of bots - and say something from the experience.
Do you know the difference between a computer player and machine learning?

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#183 Post by Squigs44 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:40 am

CCR wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:14 am
Maybe that's because they play throwing the game and "know" how to behave on such situations - they even do the right supports to do it!, while albert is expecting a more rational play. Its analogous to the known fact that games with less skilled players end with more solos. A single good player can do nothing in such scenario.
I suggest you play fourteen games -seven games aefgirt against each set of bots - and say something from the experience.
I normally wouldn't waste my time by playing that many games to prove a point I already know (something verified systematically in a published paper), but I have a decent amount of free time, so I think I might actually take you up on this

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#184 Post by Bark » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:35 pm

Here's a funny example of Italy helping Austria destroy me (Turkey), which would in fact actually hurt Italy's chances in a real game. He essentially guarantees the Austrian solo. It's not a realistic game from Italy's POV.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... rand=49028

And I still have my doubts that they don't know who the human is to gang up on him/her. How else would they know that they can draw the game once the human is eliminated?

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#185 Post by Bark » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am

Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#186 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:52 am

Bark wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:35 pm
Here's a funny example of Italy helping Austria destroy me (Turkey), which would in fact actually hurt Italy's chances in a real game. He essentially guarantees the Austrian solo. It's not a realistic game from Italy's POV.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... rand=49028

And I still have my doubts that they don't know who the human is to gang up on him/her. How else would they know that they can draw the game once the human is eliminated?
Because the bot is hosted off the site and doesn't get enough data to know. The code to draw a game once the human is eliminated is code I wrote independent of the bot project to prevent them from playing on forever once the human is eliminated.

The bot's understand supports btw, I don't see you issuing any which might be why you had a hard time making allies in that game.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#187 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am

Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am
Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#188 Post by Octavious » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am

That Fall 1905 phase where Russia decides to guarantee his own destruction by randomly supporting Austria to Rumania despite no indication that Austria was even considering going there?

That’s pretty damned suspicious, I have to admit.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#189 Post by Octavious » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:58 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am
Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.
I'm curious to how you'd explain Russia's move in Fall 1905, jmo. I'm genuinely baffled by it.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#190 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:38 am

Octavious wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:58 am
jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am
Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.
I'm curious to how you'd explain Russia's move in Fall 1905, jmo. I'm genuinely baffled by it.
Sure, the bots were trained off of human moves, figuring out which had the most success etc, via machine learning. In the approximately 100,000 games used, how many times do you think that Russia was left with no home centers left and an army in Ukraine. Specifically with an Austria also decimated. My guess is only once or twice and the bots decided to do whatever was done by that human. It's why they get worse in the endgame too, less practice scenarios. If I was dead there and had a chance to cause some annoyance for another player with one last move I'd do it too.

Then you have to consider that every turn a bot knows what the "best" move is. The one that analytics say has the best odds of a good outcome. But to ensure the bots don't do the same thing in every situation they're programmed with a varying level of aggressiveness which is chosen at the start of each game for each specific country. And they'll also use a randomness factor every turn. I think their likelihood of picking the best move is something like 85% as a general base. Depending on what it "rolls" for that turn it might pick the 2nd or 3rd best move. Which in this case was probably supporting in the other weak country, since I doubt anyone in this situation found a move that's "statistically successful" because at 1 center in Ukraine your odds of winning or drawing are pretty low. So all possible moves would probably be weighted pretty close to best. Hence, an outcome that while perfectly in line with the programming, makes no sense to the humans watching it.
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#191 Post by Bark » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:45 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am
Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.
No offense, but I've supported them before to no avail.

Try playing the AIs as Austria.
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#192 Post by Tom Bombadil » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:58 am

The bots 100% do not know who the player is and team up against them. That is not true.

What you find is that the more the game gets into the late game, the less sense the bots sometimes make. Bots are good at turn by turn tactics, but not so good at late game strategy looking ahead several turns.

You’ll find that just as many times you can take advantage of this versus pointed out the times where it worked against you.

Alternatively, if you want a more human experience you can always play against humans!

But I think the best distinction is turn by turn tactics vs large overall strategy

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#193 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:04 am

Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:45 am
jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:14 am
Another funny example of the human player, me as Turkey, facing a rather improbable AI alliance. They definitely know who the human is and gang up on him/her. Some of those coordinated attacks on me holding Rumania, two times, by a multi-national alliance, different alliances each time, really indicate they don't like flesh and blood.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

They don't attack the dominating player on the board. They attack the human!
Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.
No offense, but I've supported them before to no avail.

Try playing the AIs as Austria.
Yeah I did, http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#194 Post by Bark » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:14 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:04 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:45 am
jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 am


Again, you need to support them just like any normal gunboat game. See here: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel

I offer Austria support in 01 and in return the bot supports me into Rumania. If you go into any gunboat game attacking all the humans you're gonna get ganged up on and demolished too.
No offense, but I've supported them before to no avail.

Try playing the AIs as Austria.
Yeah I did, http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel
And you can honestly say that when you play as Austria, that's a typical outcome? Play as Austria 100 times and post the results of each time. Taking a statistical anomaly to disprove a point isn't a valid way to disprove a point, and my point is the AIs very often all gang up on you. What's the correct move set when in Spring '01, Italy moves armies to Tyrolia and Venice while Russia moves to Galicia? You can't form a gunboat alliance when they do that. Your about to lose home centers in the first year!

I'm not knocking this effort. I appreciate the effort, but there's room for improvement. A lot of room. You could always just admit that and say that if you could, you would look to improve the AI gameplay. You have no plans to do it now, but it's on a wishlist. Do I need to send some money via PayPal to the developers to show my appreciation on this first effort to show my good faith that I'm not trolling? I'm trying to suggest some improvements, should the opportunity arise to implement them.

And to the comedian who said I could just play humans...

[Slow Clap]

Sometimes I just want to play a quick game without waiting around for one to start, which is the whole reason this AI effort was launched in the first place, wise guy.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#195 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:02 am

Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:14 am
jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:04 am
Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:45 am


No offense, but I've supported them before to no avail.

Try playing the AIs as Austria.
Yeah I did, http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... #gamePanel
And you can honestly say that when you play as Austria, that's a typical outcome? Play as Austria 100 times and post the results of each time. Taking a statistical anomaly to disprove a point isn't a valid way to disprove a point, and my point is the AIs very often all gang up on you. What's the correct move set when in Spring '01, Italy moves armies to Tyrolia and Venice while Russia moves to Galicia? You can't form a gunboat alliance when they do that. Your about to lose home centers in the first year!

I'm not knocking this effort. I appreciate the effort, but there's room for improvement. A lot of room. You could always just admit that and say that if you could, you would look to improve the AI gameplay. You have no plans to do it now, but it's on a wishlist. Do I need to send some money via PayPal to the developers to show my appreciation on this first effort to show my good faith that I'm not trolling? I'm trying to suggest some improvements, should the opportunity arise to implement them.

And to the comedian who said I could just play humans...

[Slow Clap]

Sometimes I just want to play a quick game without waiting around for one to start, which is the whole reason this AI effort was launched in the first place, wise guy.
We said in the opening posts that the AI's have room for improvement, but you're asking us to fix something that isn't broken. The bot's DO NOT know which country is the human, nor do they target that person. Attacking Austria is the thing that humans do the most often in gunboats because it's the best strategy. What you seem to be asking is for us to make the bot's worse players or to have an "easy" mode so they're easier to beat. That's of course something we would consider, but I can't fix the main concern you seem to have cause it's not an actual problem.

While we always appreciate donations here, myself and the other developers did not design the bot's. They were made by a group at a University and were used to publish a paper on their effectiveness.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#196 Post by Bark » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:07 pm

Again, you're not really understanding my point. I am not asking for the AIs to play worse. I'm asking for the AIs to PLAY BETTER. From my last, playing as Austria is not my concern; it's a general example. I'm asking you to provide feedback to the developers, not "fix" anything. There are a few shortcomings that could be addressed in a future effort. Whether or not it is addressed isn't the point. I work in IT and have worked with software developers on many occasions. They need feedback. No software effort is one and done.

Specific feedback items are:

1. Bad Endgame Strategy:

1a. Each country needs to prioritize capturing their 18 centers. The marginal centers may vary, but there are usually a dozen or so specific centers that a specific country cannot do without, varying with each country. In the endgame, countries need to prioritize attacking these centers not already in their possession. (Ex. A game with a very strong Anglo-German alliance, France eliminated, Russia eliminated, Austria eliminated, and a moderately sized Turkey and decent sized Italy: An Anglo-German alliance makes sense in the beginning, maybe even the middle, but England cannot win a solo with an equally strong Germany in the way. England needs to prioritize attacking the German centers instead of allying with Germany to attack Turkey when both England and Germany have more centers each than Turkey. This is especially true when Italy is doing a decent job keeping Turkey contained on its own just from being in the way in the Med.)

1b. Likewise, each country needs to be programmed to identify a country rapidly expanding and prioritize stopping the expansion. (Using the same example above, Germany needs to be aware that the English stab is coming, in pursuit of it's solo effort, and have forces in reserve to address that stab, instead of keeping Turkey contained. Likewise, England needs to see an equally strong Germany as a potential threat, since Germany will require some centers that England already has for its solo effort, in Scandinavia for instance.)

1c. Going with the two above, the AIs need to know about STALEMATE LINES. Once three or four countries are eliminated, holding or breaking through the stalemate lines should be everyone's top priority. Also if an AI has a good stalemate line held with distracted enemies in front and an "Ally" behind this line in the rear, the AI should stab the country behind the stalemate line to either conquer or contain them, which is related to the two points above.
(Again with the previous example, maybe Italy and Turkey have been bitter enemies all game, but now they must come together and support each other to prevent the English solo.)

2. Home centers should be a priority in the beginning:
A lot of AIs get completely destroyed relatively early. They seem to not care about Country A taking home centers in the back because they are obsessed with attacking Country B in the front. A human player would do their best to patch relations in the front and swing to the back to retake their home center. AIs don't or can't change their strategy like this.

3. Go beyond gunboat:
Allow a human player to explicitly message the AIs with a move request, and have the AIs consider it. For example, if an AI can help a person take a center, but there's a 50%/50% proposition as to which is the attacking unit, the message can settle it. Likewise, let the AI send a message to the human player requesting the same assistance with a move request too. If the support goes well, "good-will" is established. If it does not go well, "ill-will" is established.


The above are a few notes that I've come to after playing with the AIs a lot. There could be more specific feedback to be discovered later. Now, regarding my previous posts, here are some notes that could be useful feedback to the developers as well.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=635

In S12, both England and Germany decide to attack Turkey, who never did anything to either of them and was trying to get in position to help hold them to prevent a French solo. They didn't even hold each other. Instead, they help France solo, despite the fact that France conquered them both. What gunboat message did France send to get such cooperation? Indeed, in S13 England does it again, and in F13, England just gives up and supports the French solo.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... rand=49028

In A05, Italy decides to help Austria destroy Turkey despite it being the first gunboat interaction between the two of them. A06, Italy attacks for Smyrna, helping Austria. S07, Italy attacks for Smyrna again, but Austria gets Smyrna instead. A07, Italy attacks Austria in Smyrna. Repeat, Italy ATTACKS Austria! S08, Italy leaves. Two things going on here. First, Italy is being very stupid. His actions allow Austria to de facto win the solo should the game continue, if it had been a real game. Second, despite Italy attacking Austria, Austria elects to NOT take Venice with Trieste in S08. So you can tell me, "Input orders of support, gain a friend. Input orders of attack, gain an enemy," but that did not happen here, and no other variables were in play.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

Russia and Austria attack for Galicia in S01. Russia supports for Galicia in F01. Austria does the same in S02. Austria takes Warsaw in F02. Russia takes Warsaw back in S03. Clearly, Austria and Russia are not friends. All the while, Italy is battling for Austria's home centers the whole time. But, Russia decides to commit suicide and help Austria by screwing over Turkey in A05. So despite open aggression with Russia and Italy the entire game, Austria decided to stab Turkey, and Russia recognizes that this specific stab is coming? Then again in A06, Germany supports England, who supports Austria to help attack Turkey, which allows Italy to attack Turkey too. Germany and Turkey are usually considered natural allies in the game at this point, but the AI doesn't recognize this. In fact, only France was left out of the party of fighting Turkey, which is funny because Turkey is the easiest country to contain.


Again, I'm just asking you to forward feedback to the developers. Let them decide what to do with it. Even if it just goes into a folder with the code and they do nothing with it, maybe future developers will.

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#197 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Bark wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:07 pm
Again, you're not really understanding my point. I am not asking for the AIs to play worse. I'm asking for the AIs to PLAY BETTER. From my last, playing as Austria is not my concern; it's a general example. I'm asking you to provide feedback to the developers, not "fix" anything. There are a few shortcomings that could be addressed in a future effort. Whether or not it is addressed isn't the point. I work in IT and have worked with software developers on many occasions. They need feedback. No software effort is one and done.

Specific feedback items are:

1. Bad Endgame Strategy:

1a. Each country needs to prioritize capturing their 18 centers. The marginal centers may vary, but there are usually a dozen or so specific centers that a specific country cannot do without, varying with each country. In the endgame, countries need to prioritize attacking these centers not already in their possession. (Ex. A game with a very strong Anglo-German alliance, France eliminated, Russia eliminated, Austria eliminated, and a moderately sized Turkey and decent sized Italy: An Anglo-German alliance makes sense in the beginning, maybe even the middle, but England cannot win a solo with an equally strong Germany in the way. England needs to prioritize attacking the German centers instead of allying with Germany to attack Turkey when both England and Germany have more centers each than Turkey. This is especially true when Italy is doing a decent job keeping Turkey contained on its own just from being in the way in the Med.)

1b. Likewise, each country needs to be programmed to identify a country rapidly expanding and prioritize stopping the expansion. (Using the same example above, Germany needs to be aware that the English stab is coming, in pursuit of it's solo effort, and have forces in reserve to address that stab, instead of keeping Turkey contained. Likewise, England needs to see an equally strong Germany as a potential threat, since Germany will require some centers that England already has for its solo effort, in Scandinavia for instance.)

1c. Going with the two above, the AIs need to know about STALEMATE LINES. Once three or four countries are eliminated, holding or breaking through the stalemate lines should be everyone's top priority. Also if an AI has a good stalemate line held with distracted enemies in front and an "Ally" behind this line in the rear, the AI should stab the country behind the stalemate line to either conquer or contain them, which is related to the two points above.
(Again with the previous example, maybe Italy and Turkey have been bitter enemies all game, but now they must come together and support each other to prevent the English solo.)

2. Home centers should be a priority in the beginning:
A lot of AIs get completely destroyed relatively early. They seem to not care about Country A taking home centers in the back because they are obsessed with attacking Country B in the front. A human player would do their best to patch relations in the front and swing to the back to retake their home center. AIs don't or can't change their strategy like this.

3. Go beyond gunboat:
Allow a human player to explicitly message the AIs with a move request, and have the AIs consider it. For example, if an AI can help a person take a center, but there's a 50%/50% proposition as to which is the attacking unit, the message can settle it. Likewise, let the AI send a message to the human player requesting the same assistance with a move request too. If the support goes well, "good-will" is established. If it does not go well, "ill-will" is established.


The above are a few notes that I've come to after playing with the AIs a lot. There could be more specific feedback to be discovered later. Now, regarding my previous posts, here are some notes that could be useful feedback to the developers as well.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=635

In S12, both England and Germany decide to attack Turkey, who never did anything to either of them and was trying to get in position to help hold them to prevent a French solo. They didn't even hold each other. Instead, they help France solo, despite the fact that France conquered them both. What gunboat message did France send to get such cooperation? Indeed, in S13 England does it again, and in F13, England just gives up and supports the French solo.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... rand=49028

In A05, Italy decides to help Austria destroy Turkey despite it being the first gunboat interaction between the two of them. A06, Italy attacks for Smyrna, helping Austria. S07, Italy attacks for Smyrna again, but Austria gets Smyrna instead. A07, Italy attacks Austria in Smyrna. Repeat, Italy ATTACKS Austria! S08, Italy leaves. Two things going on here. First, Italy is being very stupid. His actions allow Austria to de facto win the solo should the game continue, if it had been a real game. Second, despite Italy attacking Austria, Austria elects to NOT take Venice with Trieste in S08. So you can tell me, "Input orders of support, gain a friend. Input orders of attack, gain an enemy," but that did not happen here, and no other variables were in play.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameI ... ocache=962

Russia and Austria attack for Galicia in S01. Russia supports for Galicia in F01. Austria does the same in S02. Austria takes Warsaw in F02. Russia takes Warsaw back in S03. Clearly, Austria and Russia are not friends. All the while, Italy is battling for Austria's home centers the whole time. But, Russia decides to commit suicide and help Austria by screwing over Turkey in A05. So despite open aggression with Russia and Italy the entire game, Austria decided to stab Turkey, and Russia recognizes that this specific stab is coming? Then again in A06, Germany supports England, who supports Austria to help attack Turkey, which allows Italy to attack Turkey too. Germany and Turkey are usually considered natural allies in the game at this point, but the AI doesn't recognize this. In fact, only France was left out of the party of fighting Turkey, which is funny because Turkey is the easiest country to contain.


Again, I'm just asking you to forward feedback to the developers. Let them decide what to do with it. Even if it just goes into a folder with the code and they do nothing with it, maybe future developers will.
Can you pleasseeeeee read my initial post in this thread. viewtopic.php?p=102779#p102779

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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#198 Post by goldfinger0303 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:27 pm

"
From a programming standpoint we cannot take suggestions on how to improve the bots play. You *will* run into situations where the bot's moves could have been better, you might have ideas on how the bot could be a better player, etc. We cannot accept any of those. The training of the bots is something done by the university partners and we do not have control over it. At a future point we might, and we do have some plans to help them improve the bots for 1 vs 1 variants, but I do not want anyone to get offended when we say we can't take your suggestions, it simply isn't possible."
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Bark
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#199 Post by Bark » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:58 pm

Fair enough, but what about the country they are assigned? Do the AIs have different "personalities?"

For giggles, I played as Austria about ten times yesterday. Skynet was Italy every time. 9/10 times, he either moved Venice to Trieste in S01, Venice to Tyrolia with Rome to Venice in S01 or convoyed A Tunis to Albania in S02. I played with defeating him in some games and started out hostile as well, but about half the time I was quite docile, either holding Trieste or sailing to Albania. I wasn't prompting him.

In any instance where he was hostile, he never changed his strategy. Juggernaut came to kick both are assess, he's still attacking me. France came to kick his ass, he's still attacking me.

I wanted a different AI to play as Italy. Could you all just randomly assign which AI gets which country?
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jmo1121109
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Re: AI bots on webDiplomacy: Skynet edition!

#200 Post by jmo1121109 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:02 pm

Bark wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:58 pm
Fair enough, but what about the country they are assigned? Do the AIs have different "personalities?"

For giggles, I played as Austria about ten times yesterday. Skynet was Italy every time. 9/10 times, he either moved Venice to Trieste in S01, Venice to Tyrolia with Rome to Venice in S01 or convoyed A Tunis to Albania in S02. I played with defeating him in some games and started out hostile as well, but about half the time I was quite docile, either holding Trieste or sailing to Albania. I wasn't prompting him.

In any instance where he was hostile, he never changed his strategy. Juggernaut came to kick both are assess, he's still attacking me. France came to kick his ass, he's still attacking me.

I wanted a different AI to play as Italy. Could you all just randomly assign which AI gets which country?
The AI's personality is assigned for each specific game and each country during that game. The personality is not user account specific. So zultar bot, jane bot etc wouldn't behave any differently than skynet bot other than the random aggressiveness factor assigned when the game started.
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