MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[worcej]

This is through post 893:
[...]

17. Worcej: Scum
His reads post on page 25 seems to be more a comment on play styles than anything else. He puts his read as null on peter, but then jumps on the peter wagon with his vote? Then flips to thedip which causes that wagon to tie, and eventually wins. His comment of “saw this one coming” after thedip died is also scummy. If you saw it coming why did you vote for him?
##Vote Worcej

• I didn't tie the wagon, I moved my vote off peter when it was tied. An important fact - page 29 I make a comment if I move my vote it would be a 3-way tie and then I moved it after others voted to ensure no tie occurred.
• First comment was a joke DrCJG was scum again because 'third times a charm' logic (again joke). I then commented after the NK of him (not the dip) because I was actually shocked/joyed to see my BS theory was actually true.
• I am also legit glad DrCJG is dead and was scum because he is a really good lurker and gets town-read a lot.
• You should read my readlists closer, because they are more than just comments on playstyles.

[brainbomb]

If you ever lynch worcej you deserve to lose

[damo666]

As prompted by Squiggs this is my readlist. There is as yet nothing concrete to go on so i am not providing detailed analysis per individual. My findings are a combination of gut feel; style, frequency and content of posts, voting patterns, and others' reads (ie trying to read between the lines as to why they give the results they do - not being influenced by said results).

1. Bismark Null/Townlean
2. Bozo Null/Scumlean
3 Brain Town (or SK?)
4 Damo Town
6 DT Null
8 Flash Townlean
9 Fox Null/Town
10 Jamie Town
11 Peter Scumlean
13 RDR Null/townlean
14 Teacher Scumlean (or SK)
16 Vecna Null
17 Worcej Scumlean
18 Yav Null/Scumlean

[brainbomb]

##Vote Yavuz

[Vecna]

Pretty sure the post you were replying to answered that.

Fair enough. Can you answer my question for overnight about retracting your Rod Rivera read?

I felt his posts all sounded too stand-offish, until that one post I quoted, which felt more ok. Maybe its because he was buddying me in it, im a real sucker for that. At any rate, he's not done anything to impress since.

[Vecna]

@Vecna: In the pregame chat, you said you were going to "janitor" peter the first chance you had, then you scum read peter for some of his first comments in the game and voted for him, referencing your pregame comment. Why the focus on peter? Even if you believe he is scum, it appears you had a bias going into the game and were looking at him closely for anything suspicious.

What nonsense is this? I scumread him because of a total nonsensical statement, that he backtracked on instantly. Then he went on to lurk, only make non-game related comments except for 2 posts, 1 on teachon and 1 on jamiet vs brainbomb. The rest is all fuzzy "hi newby, welcome to the game" type of posts.

Know whats even more scummy? he didnt adress any of my reasoning, but all he did is refer to a past game where I vigged the town doctor (Only thing here I can see is an attempt to discredit) and later on he comes with even more nonsense about how I ignore everything else in the game.

My read has nothing to do with the pregame nonsense, and i except better from you than to pretend that it does.

[bozotheclown]

@Vecna: In the pregame chat, you said you were going to "janitor" peter the first chance you had, then you scum read peter for some of his first comments in the game and voted for him, referencing your pregame comment. Why the focus on peter? Even if you believe he is scum, it appears you had a bias going into the game and were looking at him closely for anything suspicious.

What nonsense is this? I scumread him because of a total nonsensical statement, that he backtracked on instantly. Then he went on to lurk, only make non-game related comments except for 2 posts, 1 on teachon and 1 on jamiet vs brainbomb. The rest is all fuzzy "hi newby, welcome to the game" type of posts.

Know whats even more scummy? he didnt adress any of my reasoning, but all he did is refer to a past game where I vigged the town doctor (Only thing here I can see is an attempt to discredit) and later on he comes with even more nonsense about how I ignore everything else in the game.

My read has nothing to do with the pregame nonsense, and i except better from you than to pretend that it does.

I did not think his statement about brainbomb and Jamie was that questionable, he did not say he was sure they were both mafia, he just speculated that it was possible. Although I do not think that is the case, I would not rule it out as a possibility.

[bozotheclown]

Looking at the D1 voting, the thing that stands out to me is that peter's wagon and thedipplayer's wagon both grew large quickly. This makes me think that it is more likely peter is town, since there was little opposition to his wagon as it was growing. Since DrCJG did not know who the mafia were, there is not much to be gained from his voting, although he probably avoided voting for players he felt were more likely to be mafia.

[Squigs44]

I didn't tie the wagon, I moved my vote off peter when it was tied. An important fact - page 29 I make a comment if I move my vote it would be a 3-way tie and then I moved it after others voted to ensure no tie occurred.

I apologize. I was looking at the Peterbot vote count which didn't pick up Peter's vote so the bot showed you tying it. My point remains though. You voted for Peter who was a null read, then voted thedip who you later said you saw it coming that he was VT. I didn't like your votes and what you said about those players. It didn't match for up.

[peterlund]

Also, you actually havent had a single read in this game yourself. So why are you calling me lazy for it?

You have not published a full read list either so far, nor have I. That is true. But you are also tunneling heavily on one single person, which I am not doing. I have been involved with more people than you. You have only been attacking me.

- and you've been discrediting me.

I confess on that point. Yes I have been discrediting you because you are playing like shit in this game!

Vecna reaction tells me that he has something to hide. It is getting more and more obvioius that he is selecting one random person like me to do forced tunnelling on. That looks to me like lazy scum behaviour. He do not have the interest or energy to look around and not even following the thread properly.

I will do a read list as I usually do at EoD2, when there is enough material around to do so...

[Vecna]

That just looks way more like youre searching for logic to protect your ninja or rb instead of genuine thoughts.

The wagon grew quickly because there were proper reasons for it. The other wagon grew quickly because it would otherwise potentially end up on scum Peter, hence there is some scum padding it. That and the EOD coming close. Peter wagon grew close because scum wanted to at least bus to look good. Then when the other option presented itself, abandom ship.

Like all of these are valid thoughts as well. You really didnt think of those other options? Feels pretty agenda driven.

Like, you mention DRCJG's action, and try to add meaning to it. Apparently he also thought Teacher might be scum given the visit, yet you make no meaning of that.

Im getting odd vibes from you mr Bozo

[Jamiet99uk]

So Jamie I assume 3 9 11 14 includes SK?

And I assume you mean Brain, Fox, Peter, Teacher.

I think you have a MINIMUM of one right and highly likely a MINIMUM of one wrong.

That includes the four numbers I consider to be most likely to be our enemies.

[Jamiet99uk]

That just looks way more like youre searching for logic to protect your ninja or rb instead of genuine thoughts.

The wagon grew quickly because there were proper reasons for it. The other wagon grew quickly because it would otherwise potentially end up on scum Peter, hence there is some scum padding it. That and the EOD coming close. Peter wagon grew close because scum wanted to at least bus to look good. Then when the other option presented itself, abandom ship.

Like all of these are valid thoughts as well. You really didnt think of those other options? Feels pretty agenda driven.

Like, you mention DRCJG's action, and try to add meaning to it. Apparently he also thought Teacher might be scum given the visit, yet you make no meaning of that.

Im getting odd vibes from you mr Bozo

Is all of this addressed at Bozo or just the last remark?

[Squigs44]

brainbomb - LEAN TOWN: I spent a lot of time trying to focus on a possible 'code' in your first votes, but failed to do so. That ended up with me leading to the conclusion I am reading super heavily into your troll... I think there is legit a lot of bad blood between Jamie and you from the simulator and past games that I am more prone to think you two just needed to duke it out.

Jamie - SCUM LEAN: Another person I spent way to much time analyzing, only I was more focused on your laser focus on brain and the werewolf thing. Then I remembered M36 and you laser focusing on others, so I come to the conclusion that this is just what you do. This might sound mean, but you just are a confrontational person and that's how you play too. You provoke people into slipping at the expense of a personal, non-game relationship. But in this games case, your attacks have come quicker than normal...

Now that those are done, now my other concrete reads:

DrCJG - SCUM LEAN: Mostly feeling this because your playing out relatively the same as last game and I knew you were scum. You are very good at blending in and ducking/weaving. Obviously my vote is not staying on you though, but as I said I do respect your ability to blend so you're on my D2 and beyond list...

Foxcastle - NULL: Totally don't blame you for the vote, I do give off the 'lurking' image because it takes me hours to write these long posts (Newb game members will know that). I hope this list will satisfy your concerns of my content. I have you as null because a vote on DemonRHK is worthless - the logic of preventing a mod kill sounds good on paper, but the more revealed roles we see the better so that PRs can gather worthwhile information quickly.

teacher2 - TOWN LEAN: Once again, you're killing it with ideas/sugestions/mathing (although your math was off because SK cannot be killed at night). I think you're still trying to help everyone again, which puts you right onto my town list now that I am not trying to railroad you. Props for being a Poker fan (I am a casual crap player myself). I was actually on board with your tracker idea but didn't really voice it because several people were against it quickly.

peterlund - NULL: While others find you scum, I can't make much sense of those votes for now other than the lurking comments. I think you've provided little (other than your amazing bot) to have a read off of...

Now hopefully I have helped some of you. Though I see the wagon coming for me, I will accept the fate that I get because of work/lurking to write this.

So here is what I mean when I say your reads were mostly about playstyle:
On BB you talk about how there is just bad blood between them because of out of game things.
On Jamie you talk about his confrontational play style.
On Dr you talk about his play style and ability to blend in. Also reference previous games playstyles.
With teacher you pat him on the back for game mechanics stuff (which I have never liked)

This isn't to say that your reads are worthless, I was just making a comment on what stuck out to me about you. You are using a lot of meta and generalizations in your reads which I don't find very helpful.

[bozotheclown]

That just looks way more like youre searching for logic to protect your ninja or rb instead of genuine thoughts.

The wagon grew quickly because there were proper reasons for it. The other wagon grew quickly because it would otherwise potentially end up on scum Peter, hence there is some scum padding it. That and the EOD coming close. Peter wagon grew close because scum wanted to at least bus to look good. Then when the other option presented itself, abandom ship.

Like all of these are valid thoughts as well. You really didnt think of those other options? Feels pretty agenda driven.

Like, you mention DRCJG's action, and try to add meaning to it. Apparently he also thought Teacher might be scum given the visit, yet you make no meaning of that.

Im getting odd vibes from you mr Bozo

I considered other options before stating the one I felt most likely. peter's wagon was not just close, it was the leading wagon by three votes, and it looked like there was a good chance he would get lynched. Do you think there was scum on peter bussing him that hard? It's possible, but it seems more likely to me that peter is just town.

What agenda do you think I am driving, to get peter town read? I am still not sure about peter, but I think the D1 voting looks makes him look better than worse.

I think it is obvious DrCJG thought teacher might be scum if he visited him, but he did not know any more than the rest of us, which was my point about his voting.

[Vecna]

My point was simply that it couldve been any number of things, yet you choose to push one that is just as (un)likely as any other type of stuff you can attach to it.

But I guess you just wanna push the rhethoric that were all incapable and not able to get anywhere near a wagon on scum.

And yes, my post was meant to outline I think its very possible youre trying to defend a fellow scum member.

[peterlund]

@Peter - Vecna's point is sound, and I've been too focused on your EoD. Can you talk about a few people other than Brain, Vecna, or me?

I'd love to. At the moment I have read upto this message from you. I need to continue reading and by tomorrow before EoD2 I hope to have ISOed most people and done some read list. Then I will be ready for this widened discussion.

[Jamiet99uk]

^ classic anchoring

[peterlund]

That includes the four numbers I consider to be most likely to be our enemies.

@jamie: is "3 9 11 14" some agreed mafia QT code for "Brain, Fox, Peter, Teacher" being your enemies? Are these four the biggest enemies of you and mafia winning the game?

[dargorygel]

Vote Count 2.?
Brainbomb (4) Jamiet99uk, teacher2, peterlund, yavuzovic
Worcej (2) damo666, Squiggs44
Jamiet99uk (1) worcej
Peterlund (1) Vecna
Yavuzovic (1) brainbomb

Currently brainbomb is slated for destruction
3/8 endvotes
Non-voters BismarckAlive, bozo, DoubtingThomas, flash, foxy, rdrivera
Everyone has posted
Around 22.5 hours left in the day